Well, all of my rolling stock and locomotives have Kadee’s on them weather they be #5’s and #58’s as the most common. Now I use the metal series rather than plastic because Kadee does make both and they look identical. The only way you can tell is by trying to bend them by hand. Now I run everything prototypical from the get-go. I’ve started buying CV new switch kit’s with DW’s white cast frog and point sets. I mean down the last detail. Now with Kadee’s all we use is metal and I have broken a few of them under load and if it was at a train show early in the morning’s before anyone else got there and one broke you could hear the knuckle shoot off across the building and hit the light fixtures. Now I ran across these new “Sergent coupler’s” on the net and just from what I see I am impressed. I have seen coupler’s from other unknown companies that also worked just like the real thing but they weren’t as strong as Sergents looks. They had a one piece “yolk” with the knuckle a .05 nail and a bar that locked it. It was the same as the real thing where when you had to change a broke/cracked knuckle you had to pull the pin out of the yolk that goes threw the knuckle to hold it in place but on these little no name coupler’s the hole’s in the yolk were weak because they were to thin. Sergent has the pin already casted in and the housing/“yolk” is consisted of two half’s that are put together. I am going to buy a set and put them to a full test and if they can hold up then I’ll start swapping all my equipment over to Sergents. I’m not using them yet and I already have great confidence in them because they are the same design as the prototype and that design is proven extremely strong other wise they wouldn’t be using them. On top of this they are as close to “real” as it get’s in the modeling world and would be great for those who are picky about being prototypical. See we run train’s at times from 40 car’s to 80. At other time’s when we have a bigger space we can anywhere from 100 to 270 car’s. The highest we’ve been wa
I bought some of the Sargent couplers a few years ago to experiment with. They were in ‘kit’ form and take some time to get them assembled. I see they now sell ‘assembled’ couplers. They look great, but they have to have the knuckle ‘face’ open to couple(just like the real ones), and the ‘gathering’ range is not real good. The auto coupling of the current Kadee/McHenry couplers is a nice feature we have that the prototype does not have! I have the Sargents in a box and will use them on a ‘contest’ model if I get around to it.
Jim Bernier
I use either Kadee #58s with McHenry MCH31’s (scale sized lower shelf) on my tank cars (mostly Atlas corn syrup).
They look good, they work well.
Regardless of the type of coupler you switch to, GET A COUPLER HEIGHT GAUGE!!. You’ll be amazed at how many fewer problems you’ll have if all of your equipment is properly gauged. I know it’s been said before, but it bares repeating.
I have been using Kadee No.5 couplers for almost 25 years, especially since they used to be the only game in town. I have recently started using the newer and more prototype-looking Kadee No. 58 in all of my new equipment. I always replace my Accumate, Bachman, or McHenry couplers because I run prototype length trains and the plastic couplers just can’t handle the stress and weight. I had not heard of the ‘Sargent’ couplers until reading some of the posts in this topic. I will have to check them out as I am always interested in a better looking OR better operating coupler.
As far as height problems, Kadee also makes several couplers with offsets to help with cars that are either too high or too low. I’ve used them on several occasions to help with the heights on my older AHM, Tyco, Life-Like and Bachman cars.
Some technical considerations:
The first thing to understand is that Kadees (and anything designed to be compatable with them) are grossly oversized – what Tony Koestler once called “boxing gloves” – so the first thing you have to ask yourself, BEFORE you spend an arm and a leg on couplers, is whether you will be satisfied in ten years or so with oversized couplers. I failed to ask myself that question, now have about 600 + freight cars, and it is too late to switch. So, Kadees it is; but, if I were to do it all over again, I might (no, probably would) go to a closer-to-scale type coupler. In the time I made the switch, there were not many other options; however, I have known modelers who got around the scale problem and still used Kadees – they just used the HOn3 couplers for HO standard gauge. This proved a good solution, except that one does have to adjust the “glad hand” uncoupling levers on all the cars.
All right, back at the horse farm: Installing what then were known as “5&10s” – today’s 5 – was easy with an Athearn car, since the pocket in these cars was a perfect fit, and the little metal clip readily snapped right on. I found I had to CAREFULLY and SLIGHTLY bend the clip’s sides inward BY BOWING THE CLIP SLIGHTLY IN THE CENTER – to keep the clip from falling off under load somewhere out on the pike (this also helped facilitate movement of the coupler inside the pocket). The clips are very brittle and break easily, so my warning about CARE needs to be repeated.
Not that I would advise you to do this today anyway: The clips are CRS, which rusts like a bear. Over the years, what I found was that the clips would rust in humid air, lose the smoothness of their interior surfaces, and hang up the coupler. Solution: Systematically, as the problem has arisen, I have cut off the Athearn pockets and replaced them with the plastic Kadee pockets, WHICH MOST FORTUNATELY I NEVER THREW AWAY!!!.
That’s a hint, son.
I was never a fan of
Boy this topic really came back from the dead to breath again, but because it did …
I want to remind everyone of the Kadee #40 series of couplers. They use the same #5 spring and boxes that everyone likes, BUT they come in all combinations of long shank, medium shank, short shank, over shank, and under shank. It really makes converting easier. Much less shimming or putting washers on the truck bolsters.
Lots of good advice above. I have a couple of additions. One: by all means get the KD cplr hight gauge. It not only will show you the right cplr hight and trip pin clearance but you can use the rear of the gauge to determine the proper hight for the car floor. If the car floor just clears the gauge, when you put the KD box and cplr on the car the cplr hight will be dead-on. On Athearn BB cars if you shave off the truck mounting stud and glue the upper half of the KD box (the flat part with the flange at one end and the stud that the cplr pivots on) onto the car bolster you’ll have cplrs at the proper hight. Loose the “Talgo”, truck mounted cplrs! You’ll find it impossible to make a backing movement with them.
When KD’s patent expired and all the clones appeared, I tried about 3 different brands. The Intermountain were illiminated immediately because if you made a vigorous joint they broke. The other two wouldn’t stay coupled. I don’t know if they bent. I always figured that the slippery plastice they’re made of caused them to slip by when under stress. (My standard frt train length is 50 cars) I also had trouble with dependable delay functioning which I use a lot Back when the horn/hook cplr first came out there was something approaching a civil war between those who thought everbody should adopt the NMRA design for uniformity’s sake and those who wanted to stick with KDs. KD came out with a slogan in their adds that said it all. “The standard by choice”.
I’ve replaced all the old horn-hooks with Kadee #5’s and will soon replace all the McHenry’s with Kadees. I may switch them all to Kadee #58’s in the near future. I found that any plastic knuckle coupler (with spring or with plastic tab) just doesn’t work for me. They make great gondola junk loads, as far as I’m concerned.
I was also thinking of using Sergant couplers, but haven’t found alot of info about them.
[#ditto]
The plastic couplers are good for awhile but the can be damaged very easly[B)][:(]
To add to the comments about slack action, when the McHenry couplers came out, cheaper than Kadees, I bought a bunch and outfitted a unit train with them. They have way too much slack action as compared to the kadee #5s that I mostly use. Something to consider along with all the other comments.
I have since gone back to Kadeea, which are better priced since they now have to compete.
I suggest you buy them in large packs. also, you can get them without the boxes which saves money. how many boxes can you use, most equipment comes with cast on boxes anyway.
I saw an ad for the Sergeant couplers which, as I recall, said they were NOT compatable with Kadees and other Kadeee compatable brands. maybe I’m wrong about this.
Bill Williams
You may note that I updated my earlier reply with the instructions of how I modify the Kadee coupler boxes. I received several emails about this and wasn’t aware that it was a problem that others hadn’t solved.
Of course there are more replies praising the Kadee brand couplers. For many years, they were the only game in town if you wanted a reliable working knuckle coupler. Reviews I’ve seen on the other brands don’t say that they work better than the Kadee’s. One last thing to consider: Buy some Kadee brand and any other brand you want to try and equip a few cars with each type. After installing and adjusting them properly, run them for a while. If the scale sized couplers or plastic couplers work reliably for you, then go for it. The only thing I said in my two replies above is that it wasn’t my experience that they were as reliable in operation as the Kadee Metal 40 Series has been for me. Since I operate more than build models for contests, the 30 to 50% oversized Kadee’s (depending on who you listen to on this) isn’t an important factor to me. They’re between the cars when they’re running, so they’re not that visible. It depends on what you consider the more important factor.
Where can we find info on Sergeant Engineering Couplers?
I’ve compared Kadees to the scale knuckle dummies which typically come attached to the pilots of brass locomotives; I would say 50 per cent oversized is closer than 30 per cent. Also, the distance between the cars is greater with Kadees. The HOn3 coupler is about right for HO scale, but of course smaller means the coupler can take less abuse. It also can mean that a modeler would have to use larger-radius curves (PLAN AHEAd).
I did not mention that I once had I think ONE AHM car which came with talgo trucks. I cut them off and mounted a 5&10 to the car body using some plastic stock to adjust for height. At the time, I glued everything together, and I think that eventually was what did in the car – no great loss, since I moved my modeling back to 1950, and the car was painted GN glacier green. Today, I would glue the shims but then drill and tap for the coupler pocket (the screw definitely provides a stronger mount and allows for future repair or replacement).
No question but that the Kadees work well, especially in terms of delayed effect when properly installed and lubricated; and, metal is stronger than plastic.
http://user.icx.net/~sergent/ for Sergent Engineering.
I took a 20 inch piece of 1 X 4 , varnished it for a hard finish, spiked a piece of HO flex track to it. Screwed my KD coupler gauge to it, and then marked off inches starting at the height gauge up to 16 in one inch increments. On one side of the line I wrote with a sharpie pen the inches, and on the other the NMRA car weight for that length of car. This serves a dual purpose, setting the coupler and trip pin height, and also tells me how much the specific car should weigh per NMRA standards.
I have had a lot of good comments on it.
Most the time I use #5’s but have also used many Mchenry couplers and most work well. I have several dozen done and all new cars start with Kadees or Mchenry. Keep on track!
Some of the guys have been very hard on the plastic leaf spring couplers and with good reason! They are trash but they have one actual effective application. Drawbars for ABA diesel sets are really hard to come by but you can take a close coupling kit that mates to older Athern E and F units and put a leaf spring coupler in them and use them between the units. All you need to do is put a drollop of plastic cement or crazy glue in the coupler hinge to freeze it shut permanently. It will hold until the shank breaks at which time you just replace it with another one because, after all, they really are cheap.
Tsasala,
Good topic. I think I’m going to try TomDiehle’s box modifications. Tjsmrinfo’s truck conversions ar similar to my method. Thanks, guys.
The idea of using up those old “toys” works good for me. Last fall, because of severe budget restraints, I started picking up old Gons and Flats at LHS and train flea markets with the idea of making open loads for my own pike and, if I get real good, for my club. Tyco, Cox, Lima, PlayArt, IHC (here in Canada we have the Loblaw’s Grocery Christmas trains!), Lima, Pemco,and even some generic “Hong Kong” pieces. Trucks and couplers were only a starting point! Several litres of brake fluid took care of the paint. Got lots of practice whittling off grab irons and stirrups. Numerous drill bits were sacrificed until I learned to mount them “short” in the chuck. Buckets of Engine Black and CN boxcar red no. 11 got sprayed on. Stacks of CDS dry transfers await aplication yet but some cars are in weathering stage. Loads of lumber, scrap, pipes, girders and steel plate are accumulating on the docks. And yes, KD #5’s all round. Trucks are mostly Accurail and Walthers. Metal wheels, too - KayDee or P2K. I buy everything in bulk and make jigs to batch-paint everything. A couple flat cars got laser cut wood decks! Clouds of Bragdon and MIG powders and washes of Poly S grimy black and rust do Ma Nature’s part.
Cost for the junk cars was $3-$5 each. Tichy grab-irons, A-Line stirrups and all the above stuff amounted to $12 - $15 per car. At last count, there are about 40 of these cheap cars on the shop lists. Some budget restraint!! But it helped keep me sane through a difficult winter
sherwinh
Yes, by all means try the Kadee’s. They are a good product and they make a coupler for just about everything. Go to their site online and download the conversion charts. It’s well worth the efort. Get the height gage. It is probally the single best tool for reliable operation of any coupler. Also, file any flash on the shanks and use powdered graphite lube in the coupler boxes. I did break the shank on one not long ago. I believe I was in the middle of a “let’s see how many weighted cars you can pull up the grade for fun” contest. Other than that, they are pretty much indestructable. I’ll check into the Sergents couplers though, always interested in something new. I have tried other brands but will echo the comments on plastic couplers. They don’t seem to have the durability of metal.
Good luck
I have had occasion to mount Kadee no. 5 couplers on cars with talgo trucks. What I have done is to replace the talgo trucks with Kadee trucks & epoxied the coupler box to the carbody. Be sure to check the coupler height with a guage & bend the gladhands as necessary. Good luck!