I’m starting a 4x8 layout and I was wondering the following. If I wanted to save some money would not using Cork roadbed be an acceptable practice, and if so how would ballasting work?
Well, the roadbed is usually present on the prototypical railroad, so you’d need something to simulate that rise of land under the track - and roadbed usually doubles as a vibration dampener. If you are not a fan of cork, there is also molded black foam roadbed which you could use. Frankly, with ballasting and all the other expenses - skipping roadbed would not get you a savings worth the loss in realism (in my opinion).
If you really really MUST skip it, you’d ballast lightly, just enough to fill in the space between the ties, tapering off on the sides - you’d normally use this technique when laying out a yard, where the rails aren’t on elevated beds more than any other rails in the immediate area.
There are no laws that say you have to use cork or even any type of roadbed. As for the ballasting question? The cork roadbed has nothing to do with the ballasting at all. All my track is ballasted even with no road bed. Most modelers use the cork under the mainlines to elevate them like the prototype does. The deeper the roadbed the better the water drains away from the track work. It looks more real than track all laid down flat.
If you are asking for my advice. I would use the cork on the mainlines and lay the rest on the table top. Scrimping on material now at the beginning will always come back to bite you later. Do it once and do it right is my philosophy.
Pete
Cork roadbed is also a great sound damper. You will notice the difference.
I’ve read several articles on going with cork roadbed or without. Most small sidings or industrial yards do not have it or not very much so if you are building a small level shelf switcher you could get by without it.
As for me, I like the look of it everywhere so I use it even in yards and sidings myself. I put cardboard or more cork roadbed in between tracksif I need to raise the ground around the track to make it level with the ties. If you are planing grades I’d use it no matter what to help with smooth the rises and falls over whatever you make the ups and downs with.
I’ve also used both cork and the WS foam roadbed. I personally prefer the cork for its rigidity, but if the layout is going to be experiencing wide temperature swings, foam would handle the expansions and contractions better. I’ve heard that foam helps deaden model engine noise but I don’t really notice a difference.
As the other poster said, the cost savings of skipping this really isn’t going to be a whole lot for the trouble it might cause down the road. I’d look into scratchbuilding trees, structures or scenery if you want to save money.
The LION no longer uses roadbed. On my last two layouts I did use it, and it was a pain the the left hind foot to move the stuff when I wanted to make changes. (You always want to make changes).
My present layout is NYCT (New York City Transit) and so there is less need for ballasted roadbed. In tunnels the ties are embedded directly in the concrete floors, on elevated structures they are clipped to the steel runners. Yes, there is ballast in the Brighton Cut (an open cut in a concrete ROW.) but there is no need for the roadbed there since the ballast is level across the four tracks.
On the prototype, the ballast presents major problems. Snow blowers toss the stones through the neighbors windows in the middle of a windy winter snow storm, and in the summer the “Super Sucker” aka the “TrakVac” used to keep the stations clear of litter will also suck up the ballast, so that the machine is limited on where it can be used, although very few stations are ballasted, but some of course are.
BTW I get my ballast at Walmart, it comes in 25# bags, leastwise you can do this if you are not put off by the picture of a cat on the bag, and are willing to sift the stuff through a window screen. The bigger pieces you can put in the cat litter box, and the cats will never know the difference. I do not glue this ballast down, since it is cat litter and would absorb the water, and the table is made of Celotex boards, which would also absorb water.The Celotex boards are easy to cut and use, are lighter and less dense that Homosote, but alas, are no longer available. The Celotex Company is alive and well, but these boards, used extensively as wall boards and ceilings in the 30s no longer meet anybody’s fire code. These were removed from a building that we tore down, and have been stored in the gym for at least 15 years before I snatched them all up.
Sound A
While the tracks of prototype railroads are elevated above ground level for drainage purposes, cork isn’t the only way to achieve the desired appearance. In fact, here in the Dessicated Desert, cork is a non-starter - the combination of high heat and low humidity causes it to dry up, harden and crumble.
I, personally, sculpt thin extruded foam insulation (sold as fan-fold underlayment) to shape the roadbed for my desert-dwelling layout. Others have used things as unlikely-sounding as drywall scraps. A good many modelers sing the praises of homasote (or homabed, which is pre-cut homasote.) Other products are available, each with its partisans.
For sound-deadening purposes, a multi-layer sandwich of diverse materials, held together with a semi-flexible adhesive, seems to do the best job. I use latex caulk to adhere raodbed to subgrade, a cardstock track template to the roadbed and flex (or wooden ties) to the template. As a result, my modern-motored locos take on stealth characteristics and even the old open-frame motors that power most of my roster run quiet.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Roadbed (of whatever kind) serves several purposes on a layout:
- simulates the raised height of prototype main line track above surrounding terrain
- provides a smooth surface on which to lay track. This point is often ignored, and results in vertical dips and raises in the track, which in turn causes derailments and loss of electrical contact. Some roadbed materials are inherently smoother than others. Most, including cork, should be sanded to ensure smoothness and flatness, especially at joints. If you lay directly on plywood, the same requirement for a smooth, flat surface exist.
- provide some sound reduction from the noise of the rolling train wheels.
- if using spiked handlaid track (I assume you are not), must provide a reasonably firm surface to put spikes into, but is “giving” enough to not bend spikes.
- if using track nails to fasten track, either roadbed or subroadbed must hold nails. Otherwise, track is generally glued in place.
Note only the smooth surface is critical to successful operations. The need for noise reduction varies greatly among individual modelers. How high the roadbed should be above the surrounding terrain depends on prototype, era, and personal sense of “oughtness”. Our HOn3 modular group assumes 1/8" thick roadbed, and most typically dirt ballast.
The short answer is that cork is not essential, you can certainly lay your track directly on the plywood. However, you should make an effort to make sure the plywood is truly smooth and flat where the track will go. And do not plan on using track nails - you will struggle to get the nail heads to the right depth (below rail top, but not snug against the tie tops). Don’t ask me how I know this.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
I’ve never used cork roadbed - initially due to the cost issue.
I do use Homasote (Google Homasote to find a local dealer). This is a pressed-paper type of product that works as a sound-deading board, holds spikes well, and has not shown any expansion/contraction problems for me here at the beach or when I had a basement layout in the mountains of SW Virginia.
Many shortline RRs tended to (and still do) lay their track almost directly on the ground with minimal ballast. The raised roadbed that is simulated by cork roadbed is appropriate if you are modeling a large Class 1 RR (UP, NS, PRR, etc.), but might not match what would be seen on smaller lines or in industrial areas.
Bill
If you are willing to cut it yourself, you can get rolls or sheets of cork for less than already cut roadbed.
Enjoy
Paul
That doesn’t…seem cheaper to me.
After about 20 years of cork, I switched over on the new layout to Homabed and Homasote. I am totally converted to it, like it very much. I started laying the homabed in 198something when it was still sold out of Herkimer New York and continue to use it, but it comes from California. But, to each his own.
Bob
I had lots of layouts when I was younger and poorer, where I just nailed the track to the plywood prairie. Now I am old and retired and have money, I use cork. I also have a spot where I made my roadbed out of cement. I wanted a fireproof stretch on the layout where it goes over the fireplace so I sifted out the rocks from a $3.00 bag of ready mix using the wife’s kitchen strainer and mucked this in using cork roadbed as a form.
I am not recommending you do this as I think it would crack and crumble on plywood at the first flex. It is more to point out that there are other things you can use to accomplish a lot in this hobby. Don’t be afraid to experiment a bit. And don’t forget to put 10% of every pay check in the bank for retirement so you can afford to buy cork for your retirement layout.[:)]
Brent[C):-)]
"I’m starting a 4x8 layout and I was wondering the following. If I wanted to save some money would not using Cork roadbed be an acceptable practice, and if so how would ballasting work? "
I think you have been given plenty of answers and more than enough “other” suggestions.
But your basic question amounts to: “do I have to use cork roadbed?”. And the BIG FAT answer is NO, you don’t have to.
You would ballast the same, it just won’t have quite the profile the cork gives, nor the “noise insulation factor”.
Hi!
Welcome to the Forum!
I’ve built HO (and one N) layouts since the early 1960s and offer this advice to you…
-
While cork roadbed is not a “must”, roadbed (or another material) is desired in one form or another. It smooths the joints of your benchwork, leveling out your trackwork. Other obvious benefits such as raising the profile of the main lines, and noise reduction, etc. have already been mentioned. On my current layout I use the traditional cork strips, and also sheet cork for yards and sidings. I promise you that you will never regret using a roadbed, but if you don’t, there is a high likelihood you will later wish you did.
-
You talk of saving money… I have been there myself, and fully understand the situation. That being said, in the long run you will be much happier putting your money into benchwork, roadbed, track, and wiring rather that extra locos and cars. You can always add the extra locos and cars later on, and you will have a fine, solid and dependable layout upon which to run them. I KNOW this is a hard thing to do, but it will pay off immensely in the long run.
-
Most of us long term MRs started out slowly, and built up our layouts over many years. MR (to me) is a life long hobby, and I find much of the joy in the design and building of the layout - perhaps as much or more than the actual operation.
ENJOY !!!
If you have a Dollar Tree store near you, they sell a foamboard product called Readi-Board that can be used for roadbed. It sells for $1 per sheet. The Readi-Board uses thin paper for the outer layers rather than thicker cardstock so it’s easy to soak the paper off to get bare foam. It’s closed-cell Depron, so it shouldn’t have problems with soaking in water when you wet down the ballast.
While you’re there, go to the cleaning supplies section and buy a spray bottle of LA Awsome general purpose cleaner. It’s a yellow liquid in a translucent bottle. Spray it on the Readiboard, let it soak in for a minute and peel the paper off.
You can make a cutting tool by beveling a block of wood and attaching an X-Acto blade to it. Use a straight edge and run the block along the straight edge. After making one cut, flip the foam over before making the next cut, otherwise you’ll end up with a parallelogram instead of a trapezoid. For long cuts an extra set of hands is helpful to hold down the straight edge.
For curved sections, you can kerf the foam with a razor saw.
The track below is N scale.
Steve S
Steven S.:
I did the same thing with Funny Foam available from Hobby Lobby and Michaels in 12 x 18" sheets. There is a 2mm and a 3mm thickness. I used the 3mm for HO. Glue it down with caulking and use T pins or bricks to hold it until set.
The OP never asked for an alternative to cork. But for a 4x8 layout, it’s hard to beat a sheet of Homasote over top the plywood. Homasote was $30 a 4x8 sheet a year ago in my neck of the woods. You can easily use your choice of glue, caulk, spikes, or nails to hold the track to the Homoasote. When the time comes for scenery, just use a jig saw to cookie-cutter the Homasote and plywood together. I’ve made the cuts with both commercial and hand-laid ballasted track in place… Put the cut-out plywood/Homasote/track on risers if you want grades.
I swear by Homasote for roadbed anyway. For a single-sheet layout, I can’t come up with a better alternative unless weight is a critical factor. But when you cookie-cutter out the non-track locations and replace with foam, the weight goes way down.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
He said he wanted to save money by not using cork. I offered him a cheap alternative to cork.
Hi again,
Homosote is a great layout surface, but unfortunately is either not available or very hard to find in different parts of the country. I’ve tried to get it in 3 major cities over the years, and never could - so I’ve always used the cork roadbed and sheeting. I do know that Homosote can be messy when cutting or shaping, but that goes with the territory.
The OP’s main thrust seemed to be to “save money”, and I repeat in saying that one would be much better off putting what money they have into the benchwork/track&roadbed/wiring, and do without the extra locos/cars/scenery until money permits. Yes, we all know how hard that would be to actually do.