I have a few brass locomotives. Some came with coupler pockets and it was easy to add a Kadee coupler. However, some have a nonfunctional brass coupler. This makes coupling with the front of the locomotive to rolling stock, such as with switching moves or double heading impossible. I am somewhat timid when it comes to working on parts of brass locomotives. I need some help and suggestions, please.
I sympathize with your dilemma. However, I’ve found that while it’s a bit intimidating to alter a model that may have cost several hundred dollars, it’s not usually particularly difficult.
Most brass pilot couplers that I’ve seen have dummy knuckle couplers with a short shank held in by a pin. The key is to remove the pin intact. Then take a Kadee coupler (A semi-scale one like the #58 is a good choice, or the long-shank version) and cut off the keystone-shaped rear part of the coupler. Drill a hole the diameter of the hole in the dummy in the shank of the Kadee, insert the Kadee into the coupler pocket, and replace the pin. You will of course lose the functionality of the self-centering feature, and you may have to clip off the uncoupling pin to avoid interference with the pilot or pilot steps. but you’ll have a working coupler.
Depending on the particular locomotive, you may also be able to install a more fully functional coupler by enlarging the opening in the pilot. You’ll need sufficient clearance if there’s a lead truck, so this isn’t always feasible. In some instances, you’ll also need to electrically insulate the new coupler - Kadee offers some styles in engineering plastic which can be useful for such applications.
I’ve replaced dummy couplers with Kadees on brass locos with drop- and swing-type couplers, too, although the drop- or swing- feature is lost in the process. [;)]
Wayne
This is one of the challenges that come with brass locos. I’ve done about a dozen and no two are the same - in other words, there is no step by step formula. I’ll tell you a few things I do and a few lessons learned.
Lesson number one: You’ll probably be modifying visible portions of the model, so its value to collectors will drop.
Lesson number two: You’ll probably be modifying visible portions of the model, so proceed with great caution - don’t get in a rush.
Lesson number three: The coupler “pocket” opening on the model is probably not at the correct height for a non-offset coupler, so you may be shopping the Kadee catalog for something fairly obscure.
Lesson number four: There is often not enough space for the coupler to pivot with a centering spring, so I often end up with non-pivoting couplers on the front of my brass
Lesson number five: Needle files are your friend. Use them instead of your motor tool to remove brass.
Lesson number six: I can’t emphasize lesson number two enough.
Here’s my approach:
Remove the dummy coupler and put the loco on the track and see how the brass pocket lines up with a coupler height gauge. If it’s on center, I use a straight coupler, if not, then I find an appropriate offset coupler. I also look at the draft gear space and the opening size. Sometimes there is room for one of Kadee’s draft gear boxes (they make different styles, so consider your options). Usually there is not room for a box.
At this point I decide whether it really needs to pivot. If not, then I drill through the coupler shank and drill/tap a hole under the loco front beam and screw that sucker in place. This requires small drills and taps and a pin vise to operate them.
I’ve got a series of Key brass locomotives in Rio Grande prototypes (2-8-2, 4-8-2, 4-8-4), and coupler substitution on them has been extremely easy. It seems that the cast coupler is screwed to a shank that is in turn pivot-screwed to the underframe of the pilot. By removing the cast coupler from the shank, clipping the end off of a Kadee #5, drilling and tapping the shank of the Kadee, screwing it back to the pivot shank–voila! Operating knuckle coupler that also pivots to a degree. Which means that I can doublehead my Key’s anytime I want–the coupler pockets seem to all be at the right height.
Other brass locos have taken a little more ingenuity–however, some of the other locos have had wider coupler pocket entrances, which have made mounting of Kadee’s and their accompanying draft gear boxes a very simple matter (my Akane articulateds, for one). And yes, I’ve had to use off-set shanks in adapting some of the other locos (PFM, Balboa, Westside).
But at this time, about 95% of my brass fleet has operating pilot knuckles, through trial, error and a LOT of patience! And for the most part, I’ve had to do very little adjusting or replacement of the coupler openings of the pilots. It’s just finding out what will work in any specific case.
Tom [:D]
All of the advice I’ve seen will be very useful to me, thank-you to all who provided it.
I have two brass HOn3 locomotives (a Key Imports/PFM C-18 and a West Side C-25) which will need such a conversion. A check of the Kadee website shows that they don’t make offset-shank couplers for HOn3, and using the HO scale couplers is out of the question, as I need to couple to Micro-Trains N scale couplers (on kits). Can anyone suggest a way to mount front couplers on these models at the correct height without the use of offset shanks?
Thanks in advance,
tbdanny
I too have a couple HOn3 units that need couplers. Mine are WestSide Shays & I’m finding two things;
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the pockets are narrow
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the pockets are high
I gotten some PSC coupler striker plates in hoping to double as a shim to drop the couplers to an ‘n3’ level (same units were in HO as well) & they will look appropriate (missing striker details). If I still need more drop, a plastic sheet shim will do. Then as I did on a couple Std HO units, I found one can shave the sides off a Kadee snap box if you do not over tighten it & it has some side to side or other support. Just take precautions to insulate the coupler if you roll with other members & clubs, and if it is your operation rule.
Chad
Most of your respondants have stressed using Kaydee couplers on the front end of brass locos. That’s the best solution, of course, but the metal in Kaydee’s is really tough . I’ve had luck mounting sprung McHenry plastic couplers up there. It’s easier to snip off the pivot ring and centering leaf and much easier to drill the shank for the mounting pin or screw. When no mounting pin is available, I fill the coupler pocket with five minute epoxy and stick the shank in it after making sure it matches the Kaydee gauge for height. If the McHenry coupler ever fails, you can always go to a Kaydee next. Whatever you do, do not use the plastic coupler with the plastic leaf spring! Make sure the McHenry has a proper coil spring for the knuckle…
The 5 minute epoxy is a good one. I have used it several times on replacing the front couplers of brass steam. Hidden under the pilot and strong too.
I’ve used McHenrys in some of those situations, too, but before they ever appeared on the scene I used the Kadees made from engineering plastic. I don’t recall the numbers, but they have a range of shank lengths, and underset and overset heads, too.
Wayne
Wayne;
I believe they are the 20 series.
I never really had much of a problem with loco’s built by KTM, Max Gray, Balboa, and Westsides, but the PFM loco’s were another story altogether.
On “most” of my PFM loco’s that I planned to double head I used the Cal-Scale dummy coupler. It’s made of brass so it’s easy to work with and a little filing of the inside of the knuckle and it hooks up to a standard Kadee just fine, of course the trip pin must be cut off the Kadee coupler.
Some loco’s I have are dedicated “double headers” and I also used the cal-Scale dummy coupler on the tender of the lead loco.
I’m not 100% positive about this but I’m pretty sure the Cal-Scale coupler is pretty close to scale size as well so when you don’t have anything coupled on the front it looks right as well.
Of the newer Korean brass I haven’t had much trouble mounting a coupler on the front of the loco, Key, Sunset, Oriental. Some of the others such as Dong Jin or some of the “no name” specials are pretty much a serious project in fabrication.
Some of the old Gem Models were also a real “bear”, it all seems to depend on which loco you’re trying to install the front coupler on, as in each one is a “custom” fit thing. Just part of the education you get owning brass locomotives.
Mark
Danny,
A suggestion: Join the HOn3 modelers list on Yahoo and then ask this question. There are lots of tricks in narrow gauge and no use re-inventing the wheel by yourself.
Suggestion: Beg, borrow or acquire some back editions of the Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette. Jim Vail has probably covered just about every question of this type in his Gazette column over the years (going on 20+ now). I know he did a long series of articles on tuning and painting HOn3 locos. His columns are a wealth of “hands on experience” tempered information in all things HOn3 (he is also on the list).
For all you scratchbuilders out there: Here is an index to Gazette articles and plans
http://urbaneagle.com/slim/NGSLGplanlist.html
Guy
Thanks for all of the ideas. I had not thought about using McHenry couplers as I have never tried this brand. I have a new Southern 2-8-2 MS 4 by Precision Scale which I plan to be one of the workhorses of the fleet. I plan to buy the Division Point N&W Y6b’s that are coming out in 2012. A friend of mine is remotoring and regearing a PFM class A that has been custom painted and has Tsunami sound. He is supposed have a functional coupler on the head end.
I’ve learned the hard way to use the Kadee 20 and 30 series couplers when mounting a front coupler. These couplers have an non conducting material, so you cannot get a short circuit thru the coupler. This can be areal problem when double heading brass loco’s. I’ve also encountered this problem on a fe wbrass diesel and electric models. This is very important if you are using DCC as there is usually 12 to 16 volts on the track, and it can cause quite a short. John D