what would be a common 3 bay covered hopper used for grain transportation in the midwest back in the mid to late 1950’s? what year did the 3 bay PS-2 come along? what models are available in HO scale?
thanks,
charlie
In the 1950s grain would still be shipped mainly in 40’ boxcars.
Larger (4000-4427 cuft) covered hoppers for grain service were built in the 1960s, with the larger 4740-4750 cuft models built in the 1970s. Also, “PS-2” was a generic Pullman-Standard code for their covered hopper line - every P-S covered hopper is a PS-2. So “3-bay PS-2” could refer to any of at least half a dozen or more different sizes or variations instroduced through the late 1950s to early 1970s, so the question actually isn’t that specific.
Here’s a rough view of the general progression of designs. These are all builder’s photos, so the build dates are pretty clear:
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=atsf300231&o=atsf
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=atsf300869&o=atsf
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=acl89003&o=acl
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=acl89091&o=acl
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=tldx92&o=ptlx
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=acl89134&o=acl
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=atsf307502&o=atsf
In Pullman-Standard Freight Cars 1900-1960 Edward S. Kaminski there are photos of 3-bay PS2 covered hoppers with round roof hatches built in 1954. The earliest pictured was built for the Wabash in Feb 1954.
In HO scale the Walthers “Gold Line” PS2 3-bay covered hoppers are the right car. The other brands are PS2CD. I don’t know the date for the PS2CD’s but they are not in the book so definitely after 1960.
All the 3-bay N scale models I found are PS2CD. It might be possible to bash a 3-bay PS2 from two Atlas 2- bay PS2’s.
I believe that round roof hatches typically indicate a car for cement service (or similar commodity). I don’t think that these cars were used for grain in the 1950s (as the Original Poster is asking about), but I could be wrong.
All the PS2 in Kaminski’s book are round hatch.
I don’t think 3-bay cars would be used for cement in the in the 1950’s due to the its weight. This appears to still be true. This link from UPRR is current but note that cars in any service are available with either round or trough hatches and that the small 2-bay cars are for heavy products like cement and the larger cars are for lighter products.:
http://www.uprr.com/customers/equip-resources/cartypes/covered.shtml
By the way the prototype/demonstrator PS2 - a 2-bay car lettered Pullman Stantard, rpt mark/number PSX 2 was built in June 1953.
About 1954 is the date for the first deliveries of the PS-2 2893 cubic capacity 3 bay hopper. This was not a ‘CD’(\center discharge) like the later PS-2 4427CD grain hopper from P2K/Walthers.
These cars had a center roof walk and round hatches. Trough hatches for fast loading and center discharge for fast unloading had not happened yet. The Walthers and Athearn models are what you are looking for. These were very expensive single purpose cars back then and were usually in some kind of assigned service. They had a capacity of 70-75 tons of product. Many of these cars later wound up in potash or some kind of natural granules service.
The ACF ‘Center Flow’ design did not hit the market until the 1962-1963 time frame.
I remember the M&StL stenciled something like ‘serving the grain industry’ on their 2893’s so that they would not be sent to Mason City of Ft Dodge for cement loading!
Jim Bernier
A lot of the 3 bay Covered Hoppers were used in Potash Service, as Potash would not max out the weight on a two bay Covered Hopper but would in the 3 bay which was about 900 CF larger.
Another model that is available is a resin kit from F&C of the Erie Dunmore Covered Hopper which can be used with modifications for a number of railroads.
Rick J
Charlie9,
As child growing up in the 50s and 60s, with my East Toledo neighborhood being surrounded by several fairly large grain elevators I can say that they did not use covered hoppers in the 50s. They used 40 foot box cars with grain doors. We did not start seeing covered hoppers until the mid sixties, and they had trough doors. I do not know if they were P.S. hoppers or not. We liked the grain doors as they were great for building forts, and you could break a short piece of the perforated nailing straps , fold it and it make a great whistle when held in the mouth properly. Andersons elevaors had a flock of ex Wabash war emergency two bay hoppers with metal sides, which were extended a bit on top, and a canvas cover as storage for grain during the season rush. A model of those is (was) available from Tichy that included Anderson decals and a resin casting of the canvas covered extended sides and top. Makes a real bang up model. I never saw them on the road, and I think they only used them as overflow storage. I am only speaking for the facilities on the Maumee River, perhaps at other places they could handel the covered hoppers earlier.
Paul
Dayton and Mad River RR
Paul,
I lived along the WAB/NKP joint line in South Toledo and saw those Anderson Panel Side Grain Hoppers rebuilt out of the old WAB Panel Side Hoppers. That Tichy Car is still available, I have ten of those puppies to build at some time. They were used quite a lot and especially in the fall during the grain rush.
The directions stated they were painted silver, but they all had a green cast to them from the Alfalfa dust they picked up at the Maumee elevators. So that is the way I am going to paint them.
Rick
thanks for all the input. i do appreciate it. looks like 40’ narrow door box cars are going to be the grain haulers of choice for me. i was around back in the 50’s but i was just a kid and didn’t pay a lot of attention to things. like steam engines, i remember them but i don’t know for sure what i saw…
when i was working on the big four, i heard the “Q” used to pay a $5 cash bounty for clean box cars usable for grain loading. they were evidently losing a lot of business because of short car supply. other railroaders hijacked every clean box car they could find that was suitable for grain loading and delivered them to the Burlington at E St Louis. they kept themselves in beer money during the entire grain season. car service directives? forget about it !!
charlie
Rick,
I have a pair of them that I built many years ago. I knew that they had the greenish cast to them and I tried long and hard before I got the color right, but mine do have that greenish cast, thanks to an airbrush.
I never knew why that was so, but now I do. Thanks for the insight. I lived right next to the HI Level bridge on the east side, and went to Good Shepard school, which would be that big green dome next to the HI Level.
My father worked on the C&O and frequently went to the Wabash Yard over near your place, down by the old Andersons elevator before they built the new interstate bridge over the river. I also remember the Fasseet street bridge getting knocked down, and there is a museum in Toledo with photoes of that bridge that my Mother and I took…waaaaay back when? I spent lots of time over by the Wabash tower where the Wabash Crossed the NYC to get down to the Middlegrounds and Piling yard. Boy it sure does bring back lots of memories. I also remember hearing trains banging over the diamond there on summer nights when my bedroom window was open to cool the house down. No AC back then.
Paul
Paul,
Thanks for the reply. I belonged to Our Lady of Perpetual Help, but because I started at Ladyfield School at Bancroft and Secor, I continued to go there.
My older brother worked for the City (my dad was a city councilman) at the time and was cutting grass in the open fields over by the Fasssett Street Bridge when that ore boat broke loose and rammed and knocked it down.
My memories of the Wabash centered on the passenger train that went by the house at speed at 7:40 pm which meant it was time to go into the house for the evening. Also the numerous trains the NKP ran to maintain schedules versus the way other railroads operated.
Rick J[2c]
Thank you Chris for the link to the Canadian (and American) galleries. They are most informative. My chosen era is the 1950 - 1970 -give or take a year or two [;)] - American scene. Modeling 1:29 outdoors does mean the data on cars is more readable than the smaller scales and as such I try to achieve some accuracy within the parameters of models available.