CP's line through the Spiral Tunnels..

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

Is this line single or double track?..and did the tunnels need to be modified to accommodate double stack trains or were the tunnels orginally constructed with sufficient clearances?

2

The Spiral Tunnels are single track. I’ve always felt that double tracking this section is outside the realm of possibility, given the already tight radius’s.

Up until after we moved to Calgary in 1965, they were timber lined. At the time a concrete lining was put in, they raised the height to accommodate bi-level autoracks… Only a few years later they were adjusted for tri-level autoracks. I guess that worked for international double-stacks as well, but in the 1990’s they were adjusted again for domestic double-stacks. I’ve never been sure how the adjustments were made, but it was unfortunate that the adjustment for tri-levels came so soon after the original concrete lining was put in.

An almost forgotten piece of trivia: when The Canadian debuted with Dome Cars, passengers had to leave the domes when the tunnels were still timber lined, in case a timber shifted. This precaution was made even though there were ice-breakers attached to the tops of the “A” units. No domes were ever damaged, but a few caboose cupola’s were destroyed in earlier times.

Bruce

3

Thanks Bruce…that’s interesting about the dome cars. I would imagine distributed power would be the norm here these days…

4

The Spiral Tunnels have been in the DP program since the beginning, when they were called Robots.

Bruce

5

Sounds like this might be a great HO scale modelling project for someone (me hopefully), if I get the wife’s blessing to use our basement for it. So far the answer has been a resounding NO…but I’ve found that sometimes if you ask the same question otten enough the answer sometimes changes.

6

And what planet are you living on??[:-^]

7

I live on the planet called HOPE. First time I asked my wife out on a date she said NO WAY. So there’s hope yet for my basement empire. And I’ve done sales for long enough to know that the word no really means “not now”. It rarely means “not ever”.

8

Dream no more, gentlemen, for I give you…

Kicking Horse Pass, west slope, east switch Partridge to west switch Cathedral.

9

Deleted duplicate post. - PDN.

10

I’m sure there have been some model railroad track plans published for that area - perhaps by the late dean of such depictions, John Armstrong.

I know an engineer (mechanical or manufacturing type) who applied for the same job opening at the same company 3 different times over the last 6 or 8 months - once via the monster.com “job board”, the next time directly to the company, and the 3rd time via a personnel agency/ recruiter, whose fee was paid by the company. He started there about a month ago . . [:-^] [swg]

  • Paul North.
11

Thank You.

12

“CONQUERING THE CANADIAN ROCKIES - A trackplan that purports to resemble the Spiral Tunnels”
by Woodwell, Don, from Classic Toy Trains, October 2005, p. 46
( keywords: O trackplan )

“CPR’s spiral tunnels - Notable feats of railroad engineering: Kicking Horse Pass”
by Gloff, George A., from Trains, April 1952, p. 22
( keywords: CPR Line pass tunnel )

“Canadian Spiral Tunnels”
by Westcott, Linn, from Trains, December 1940
( keywords: prototype tunnel )

And from this forum: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,1428910

"I don’t know if anyone has built it, but John Armstrong designed a 14 x 25 HO layout, apparently on commission, based upon the area. Called it the Trans-Ro

13

Thanks alot Paul…I’m going t look those up.

14

In the “18 Tailor-Made Model Railroad Track Plans” book, that track plan is on pages 75 - 78 inclusive (4 pages total). It’s set-up to be built in phases, and looks like a typical well-thought-out Armstrong plan. Although Kalmbach apparently no longer sells it (see: http://www.kalmbachstore.com/modeltrains-railroading-model-railroading-books-track-plans-and-layout-planning.html ), it looks like you can get a copy for under $10 from either Amazon or AbeBooks - see: http://openlibrary.org/books/OL3195028M/18_tailor-made_model_railroad_track_plans

There’s also info on and a nice diagram of the Spiral Tunnels in the late William D. Middleton’s book, Landmarks of the Iron Road at pages 121 - 124 inclusive (only half of those first and last pages, though), as well as almost any decent history of the CP.

  • Paul North.
15

Are the curves super elevated?

16

I’ve had the same experience…quite often a definitive NO turns into a YES if you ask another person or if you couch the question a little differently…or like water eroding away at a rock…you wear the other guy down by asking the same question over and over and over again.

As far as employment goes, I used to use a neat little trick… I would contact one of the supervisors at my prospective employer and ask him/her what problems they encounter on a daily basis. I would then contact the personnel department with something like “Jim in shipping says he has a problem with XYZ and I can help him with that if you hire me”… A couple of times I got a job that way when the official word w

17

I’m trying to remember about curves in the tunnels, we were on an air cadet train going to Abbotsford B.C. from the prairies in the 50’s on old coaches that allowed us to open the windows, quite a treat for us 16 year olds to stick your head out the window inside a tunnel, somehow we survived and I’m sure there are still some coke bottles in the middle of the tunnels to this day, the smell in the coaches didn’t leave for about 2 hours, there are some great photos of this route taken by hanging out the windows through the rockies, somewhere in Canada many ex cadets must cherish these black and white photos.

18

I don’t have personal knowledge or a good source, so I can’t say for sure. Middleton’s book says they are 10 deg. curves = 573 ft. radius. FRA superelevation table (I know, this is in Canada) says 21 MPH for 0" SE, 25 MPH for 1.5" SE, 30 MPH for 3.25" SE, so I’ll speculate there is likely some - probably in the 1" - 2" range.

Middleton also says the tunnels were enlarged for double-stacks in 1992.

  • Paul North.
19

Hi,

I was at the spiral tunnels in 2008. If you plan on flying out there, this is what I would recommend:

Fly to Calgary. From Calgary it is about 2 hours by car to the Rockies. Make sure your car has a sun roof, so that you can see all of the mountains. From Banff head west on Highway 1. Just outside of town there is a road that exits on the right side, it is called “Bow Valley PKWY” It is nothing more then a two lane road that winds its way along the base of the mountains on the one side and the river on the other. Between the river and the road is the CP. This road basically leads to Lake Louise, BUT shortly before you get to Lake Louise on this PKWY is Morants Curve. You can not miss this spot, there is even a lookout made for you to stop your car safely.

After Morants Curve you can continue to head west. After about a hours drive on Highway 1 you will come across the lookout for the spiral tunnels. It is actually a tourist attraction and you can pull off of the highway, at a location where they have these stationary binoculars that you pay a quarter for to use. While driving to the spiral tunnels from Morants curve you will have driven in parallel with the CP tracks practically all the way, but hidden from view due to rocks and trees.

Unfortunately all the vegetation covers up a lot of the train as it enters the lower spiral tunnel when you are watching from the look out location. When I was there I was able to watch a freight of tripple auto carriers snake through the spiral tunnel, then jumped in the car, drove for about half an hour to a road crossing, watched the same train still climbing a grade, then hoped back into the car and drove to Morants Curve and saw the same freight in full dynamics going towards Banff.

So if you ever get a chance to go out that way, enjoy and hope the above helps.

frank