Crane tender

Model Railroader Prototype information for the modeler
1

Hi everybody,

I’m actually building a worktrain for my layout using my old HO Bachmann crane. If I’m not wrong, this kind of steam crane need a coal tender to get a source of fuel. I can’t remember seeing such a tender on old photographs and never saw one on a scale model. However, I think it just make sense to have a tender in the same way a rotary snow plow need one…

Am I wrong? What kind of tender were in use? I guess railroads didn’t order special tender with their crane but used some old ones… ans they probably did a few modifications to meet their needs…

I’ve put a picture of the little mock up I did… Is it somewhat near the reality on prototypes?

I reused an old Mantua 4-6-0 tender… It’s oversized, but looks OK with the big crane…Crane

Thanks

Matt

2

I have never seen a tender for cranes. though some supply of occasional fuel and water was needed. They did not use up coal/oil and water nears as fast as a steam locomotive. Coal and water were usually on the crane itself. Many were oil fired.

Is the one in the photo, oil or coal fired? Since Bachmann made the crane, there must be some info on what Bachmann used as a source.

Rich

3

I did a little searching. This should provide you with some answers. Just do some homework. Maybe you will be a source of help to someone in the future. Don’t forget to store the links.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ei=PHQgS8qlMYL9nAee2KDWDQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAYQBSgA&q=steam+powered+railroad+crane&spell=1

One link has a crane with tender but you have to join the group to see a larger photo.

I have seen many pictures with a couple steam power cranes pulling a overturned loco up an embankment but any fuel/water cars are not in the photos as I remember.

Rich

4

Aha! … Is French or English harder to spell, since neither is very phonetic? That’s one thing English and French writers would seem to have in common.

My GF pretended she wasn’t with me when I asked if a particular subway train was going to Nation (a station in Paris), which I pronounced as Nayshun, rather than Nawshown with accent on the last syllable.

Mark

5

Actually they needed the tender more for water than fuel, anything steam powered uses way more water than fuel. Steam powered cranes did have tenders and did carry fuel and water on the crane. The tender provided fuel and water to recharge what was on the crane.If the crane was out at a derailment site for a week the fuel and water on the crane would be insufficient.

I always used to laugh when I saw the wrecker at 30th St Station in Phillie. There was a HUGE debate going in in MR back in the 1970’s when Walthers came out with Penn Central decals for steam engines. It created a HUGE uproar with people up in arms about how unprototypical it was. Yet every day I saw the wrecker outfit at 30th St Station sitting there with a tender indeed lettered for Penn Central.

You will also want an additional flat car loaded with relief trucks (painted yellow). That flatcar also serves another purpose. If you pull the wrecker, with the tender leading and the boom trailing, it can be hauled faster than when it is moving with the boom leading. With the extra flat, you just switch the tender to the other end of the crane, turn the crane and have the boom hang over the other flat and you are good to go at maximum speed.

6

Thank you Rich and Dave for your input. Looks like a large tender would be use only used for important work or wreckage. All the wreckage pictures I’ve seen don’t show a tender too. Since the crane itself can work with its own reserve, I guess it would just be a bother and limit the crane movement… The boom tender was enough to support the crane’s needs… No wonder to find the tender on a huge railroad such the Union Pacific.

I just made a quick search about the bachmann prototype and found out an old archives picture from a wreckage on the C.B.&Q. that occured in 1908. At the extreme right, you can see the tender.

http://www.memories.ne.gov/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=%2Fhphsm&CISOPTR=38&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMMODE=viewer&DMFULL=1&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&DMTHUMB=0&REC=4&DMROTATE=0&x=551&y=173

The Bachmann crane is a good approximation of a Bucyrus 250T.

I guess a small 25 miles long line such as my prototype railroad wouldn’t wouldn’t need such a big crane and no tender too! But it makes the work train more complete. I guess someone could had an old tank car for water supply as an alternative… but now, we’re in fiction.

Matt

7

A wrecker outfit rarely operates with just the wrecker. In addition to the wrecker an outfit would have a coulpe cars of ballast and a car or cars of track material. Older era would be rails and ties , newer era would be track panels. Plus there would be a passenger car with the consist. It would typically have seats for the workers, possibly bunks or Pullman sections for the workers to sleep in and often has some sort of kitchen to feed the workers. Calling out the wrecker is a n all daya affair on most railroads. It takes an hour or more to get it all together, the equipment is speed restricted going out to the wreck, and it takes an hour or more to set up the crane once its on site 9switch the cars around, get the crane in position and deploy the outriggers.

The other thing people forget about using a wrecker is that it is an ON TRACK piece of equipment. In order to work it has to have track to get there. So if the track is torn up by the derailment, the crews may have to wait for the wrecker material to get there, rebuild the track up to the derailed cars, rerail or clear the cars, then rebuild track up to the next car, move the wrecker up, reset it move or clear that car, build more track, etc. It is not a quick process. Tha’t one of the primary reasons railroads rarely use wreckers anymore, they are too slow and cumbersome.

I always shake my head at the people who have a derailment, “call out the wrecker”, run it to the site, 0-5-0 the car back on the track and then run the wrecker back to the yard complementing themselves on being “prototypical”. Maybe not so much. On a real railroad, once you call out the wrecker you’ve lost the main for hours. In most cases if you have to call out the wrecker in the second half of the session, if you really wanted to be prototypical, you’d send all the road train crews home since they won’t turn a wheel th

8

Interesting way to “play” with the wrecker Dave. In my case, I’m modeling a terminal were 3 differents roads end. I think it’s the best of places to see a work train waiting, but not where it would be operating. Just like you said, I would rather run the work train out of the layout for an “invisible location” and make it come back later.

Personally, I always see work train as a static display on which you can experiment with unusual railway equipment. When I run them on the layout, it’s habitually to a spot where I need to replace, add or move real trackage during layout building session. Those equipments are too much bothersome and prone to derailment, clearance limitation and other bad lucks that make operation a source of unwanted stress.

Matt

9

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10

Heritage Park in Calgary owns a steam wrecking crane with tender, and several years ago we were asked for advice on how to letter the tender for ca1915. After searching lots of published sources, the critical question was suddenly posed - did those cranes even have tenders? The answer, to our surprise, seems to be no. They only became necessary with the disappearance of steam locomotives.

At a wreck site the crane is mostly standing by waiting for the next lift, as the carmen attach cables and rigging. It will not use large amounts of water or coal and on-board supplies will be adequate for a while. As the water level drops in its own tank, a hose from the tender of the accompanying steam locomotive can top it up. The steam locomotive itself is doing very little work so its water consumption will be modest. If necessary it will run light to the nearest tank to refill, or perhaps when it is removing a rerailed car to the nearest siding.

Other steam equipment such as pile drivers would mostly need some form of tender since they will be working steadily at a site with no support locomotive available. A common variety was a flat car with a large rectangular tank, and of course with the disappearance of steam a surplus tender could be modified. In some cases instead of a tender a hose would be run down to the river below.

John

11

I will also comment on that picture of the CB&Q wreck. It is quite possible that the tender just visible is the rear of the train engine. It would be a convenient way to orient things so additional fuel and water were handy to the crane.

Johnj

12

I can answer about the two railroads that I have researched. On both the UP and the CB&Q the big steam derricks had fuel/water tenders. They were usually the tenders off retired “mid size” engines. On the UP it wasn’t uncommon to see a Vanderbilt tender equivalent to that from a small 2-8-2 or 4-6-2, but in later years one might see the big tanks from 2-10-2s as they were retired. In the steam era the railroad shops were thrifty about re-using an older piece of equipment. Tenders from scrapped steamers became the basis for snowplows in many forms and served maintenance forces. I have seen photos of a smaller UP tender in the middle of a work train as a water supply car (cooking, washing, showering, etc) as well as seeing them on roadway equipment (derricks, pile drivers, etc).

One trivia - if your “wreck train” or work train with a steam derrick is sitting in the yard waiting for its next assignment, don’t forget that the boilers were usually kept warmed by attaching them to “house steam” (the same steam plant that was heating the roundhouse or depot. I got to walk around the CB&Q’s two wreckers at Lincoln, NE. One was a 250-ton capacity and the other about a 120-tonner. Both piped to the boiler house near the passenger station. Both had the “idler” or “boom” car and both had tenders, although the tender was on the other end of the boom car from the derrick. I don’t know if the fuel and water was piped over to the derrick or if the train was rearranged when deployed. As stated, each derrick had several tool and supply cars, usually older wood boxcars or older passenger cars (painted in CB&Q’s “company service” orange paint). On the photos I have of UP wreckers the tender is always just to the rear of the derrick.

I remember a friend of my father’s telling me to include a diner on my wreck train. This man had been a section hand on the MP. The sect

13

Hi Matt,

Just came on board. Here’s a photo of mine from late 1979 of a Conrail ex-EL crane with a Berkshire tender in Hornell, NY. Looks like you’re on the right track, picking a leftover tender. I figure the crane is diesel powered.

EL tender

Bob

14

Hi Matt

I’m in the middle of a similar project. I found a pristine crane and flat from Bachmann at a train show, but it had been painted in PRR livery. I stripped all the old paint and am re-painting in CN/GTW colors. Its primarily going to be “scenery”, but I wanted an accurate model. Check out www.northeast.railfan.net/home.html as a source for prototype photos. There is a whole section on MOW equipment.

Gerry S.

15

I can’t ask for more since it’s two canadian prototypes. I was about to don’t use the tender with the crane anymore, but now it looks realistic in a late 50’s/early 60’s layout.

Thanks everybody!

Matt

16

Sorry to revive such an old thread but I fired up again this old in going WIP about my work train and wrecker.

The club layout is going though a major facelift, in fact a total rebuilt and also a time shift from the 50’s to 1967-68. We were running mostly diesels from first and second generation, so it was natural to move on. Also, I’m getting sick of the transition era!

About the crane tender, I finally found a picture showing an old tender converted into a water tank car into a CN work train back in the sixties. So, I’ll continue with this idea, even if it’s not feeding the “dieselized” crane.

My new questions:

Fisrt: I’m actually working on a few flat cars that will keep company to the work train. Back in late 60’s, did track panels existed? My guess would be that railroads still used unassembled ties and rails.

Also, I’ve seen many pictures of cranes with a flat cars full of wheel sets and trucks in place of a boom tender. However, I couldn’t be sure if those cranes were on work trains or assigned to other railway use. Would it be prototypical to put such car on a work train. I guess it’s quite handy to have replacement wheels and trucks ready at the derailment site.

Last question, what would be the order of cars on a work train? OK, I know it’s the kind of thing that varies a lot from company to company, but most pictures just shows the crane itself. From what I have seen from scarce picture, the tender would be first, then the boom tender, the crane, a gondola or flat (ties and rails), a box car (tool car, etc.), wheel flat car and passenger coach + kitchen car.

Sorry about all those question, in fact, there’s no wrecker in my area to use as prototype for CN (or general practice). Last time I saw the wrecker was when I was 4 years old back in 1987! Let’s just say I remember the “thing” was black with a white CN noodle on it and strange looking cars where coupled to it!

Thak you very much for your input! It’s always

17

I built the PRR crane tender after seeing the prototype on the web.

Walther’s sold ten other MOW cars, which included a Russell snow plow, old Pullman, dormitory, kitchen, tool, flat (for ties), etc. I bought them all. I now have a separate MOW yard to store them in.

Doc

18

Don’t know about other roads, but the B&O was using track panels in the late 1960s. IIRC they usually arrived in regular system (B&O or C&O) gondolas.

It was pretty common to have spare trucks handy unless it was just an engine that was wrecked.

Generally the flat cars and gons would be nearer the crane (usually called a derrick on the PRR) and any dining cars and bunk cars farther away from the crane. The order of the cars wasn’t too important until the wreck train got to the last siding before the wreck site where they would shift the train around and get everything in the order the wreckmaster wanted. Then they would shove up to the wreck with the crane leading. Note from personal observation: It was a good idea for the wreckmaster to have one of his men who knew exactly what order he wanted the cars in present at the place where the trai

19

Thank you for your input, it makes a lot more sense to get the final order near the wreck site. I’ll keep that idea in mind, it will makes thing easier. I’ll go with the track panels.

I’ve just found this article while searching about track panels in the 60’s.

http://www.railroad.net/articles/railfanning/worktrains/index.php

Toward the end, a chapter cover the wreck train. Looks like the old tender will be of some use.

"Walther’s sold ten other MOW cars, which included a Russell snow plow, old Pullman, dormitory, kitchen, tool, flat (for ties), etc. I bought them all. I now have a separate MOW yard to store them in. "

I remember these nice sets. I got the Russell snow plow back then (repainted to CN colors and waiting f