A year ago last month Amtrak published a performance improvement plant for the Crescent, the Lake Shore Limited and the Silver Service trains.
I read the Silver Service section. I was not surprised when over 2/3 or the riders on the Silver Star and Silver Meteor are over 55 and 62 percent of Palmetto riders are. What did surprise me is that over 2/3 of the riders on these trains are women.
An interesting point is the section on paired cities. While few people ride the trains from New York to Miami a great many travel between intermediate stations, so many so that fewer than 25 per cent of passengers go between stations with enough riders for pairing statistics.
Attention to detail is something else that stands out. Amtrak is committed repairing and upgrading stations, cleaning train windows and higher standards of cleanliness in train restrooms.
The report contains a wealth of information, more than I can cover. However, I can provide a link:
This thread is a response to your suggestion about breaking up the Silver Star and Silver Meteor in the middle of the trip. When I found the report I thought it deserved a new thread.
And you are right; many people now ride the trains between intermediate stations despite dead of night service. No doubt a lot more would ride trains that stopped there at a reasonable hour.
However, as you can see, there are no plans to break up the trains in the middle of the trip.
I have read the performance improvement plan for the Crescent as well as the Sunset Limited and Texas Eagle. The plans look good. Have any of the recommended improvements been implemented?
Actually, Amtrak published the PIPs for the Crescent, LSL, and Silver service trains over a year ago in September, 2011. The reports for the AutoTrain, Empire Builder, SW Chief, City of New Orleans, Coast Starlight were due by end of September, 2012 but they have not been posted on the website yet.
Yes, people who proposed combining this LD train with that LD train or somehow reducing part of the remaining LD train network, should read the PIP reports along with the Amtrak Monthly Performance Reports. The LD trains have been growing in ridership, are reaching capacity for peak periods in some cases, and serve a lot of intercity pairs along the routes. Amtrak could improve operating cost recovery for the LD trains if they had more sleeper and coach cars to add for the peak seasonal and travel periods.
Sam – not than I am aware but Oltmamn may have more information for Atlanta.
Any Results of the talks with NS are not known. DON? I expect that the track work will cost $500,000 ( ? ) and the servicing facilities may cost another $100,000? It may be NS is holding up for some reason ? The loss of Armour yard ( 1/2 mile north ) is a shame as there was a wye there. Otherwise turning will have to be done at Howell Jct ~~ 3 miles south.
After rereading the PRIIA report I have to say that any thoughts I had of changing the schedule of the Crescent have evaporated.
1. At present 52% of passengers and 63% of revenue of the Crescent are O & Ds at Atlanta. So the times at ATL should not be changed.
2. That is not to say that an early morning departure north bound from Atanta joining the mid day Piedmont schedule at CLT - Raleigh and eventurally Richmond / WASH is required to provide day time service.
3. 23% of pass and 30% of revenue travels thru ATL. So do not change times.
4. Only 21 % of passengers and 9 % of revenue is south of ATL.
5. Average rider on train is 526 miles and sleeper 755 miles.
6. NYP - ATL mileage 859 and WASH - ATL 634. ATL - NOL is 518
7. AMTRAK expects by adding a 5th coach north of ATL will increase the ridership and revenue by 25 %. If there is more coaches how many more passengers ?
8. If that occurrs then 42 passengers / train mile wi
The plan for a daily Sunset Limited was blocked by UP which demanded a lot of money, reportedly enough to pay for the remaining double tracking of the LA to El Paso route. Amtrak, my guess is for political reasons, decided not to pick a fight with UP this time around, did get UP to agree to shift the 3 day a week SL schedule to roughly match that in the SL PIP report in return for not asking for a daily SL for 2 years. The SL schedule was changed in May.
Many of the other major recommended changes appear to be waiting on new equipment from the CAF order or other projects to be completed. The Crescent changes for dropping off cars in Atlanta, adding Thruway feeder buses need a new station in Atlanta first. There is a new station site, not ideal but Amtrak is not in a position to be that picky in GA, there are some plans for it, but reportedly Amtrak and GA DOT are looking for developers to fund the station in return for developing the lot… That could take a while.
Amtrak did add Thruway buses recently for the Silver Meteor and Palmetto as per the recommendations. Some of the recommendations were likely rebuffed by the operational crews…
UP railroad wanted Amtrak to pay 750 Million Dollars to make the Sunset daily train. Where would Amtrak find that Money. or Maybe Amtrak could start printing they own money.[(-D]
Amtrak improved the Texas Eagle through schedule by reducing the dwell time in San Antonio, although it is still too long. From my perspective Amtrak just tweaked the schedule.
Amtrak could have dropped the SL, run the Texas Eagle through on a three day a week schedule, and implemented a three day a week coach train from New Orleans to San Antonio. Presumably the UP would not have cared since the load on its facilities would have been the same.
I don’t know the inner workings of Amtrak. Clearly, as a ward of the state, it comes under significant political pressure. Yet as noted by others participating on these forums, Amtrak’s leadership does not appear to be very aggressive. Maybe Boardman is aggressive, and we just don’t know it, but Fred Frailey, who supposedly has some inside knowledge, does not appear to think so.
Have never said differently. you misread my post. I suggest that a new day train originate in ATL ~~ 0630 and at Charlotte assume the time slot and route of the Piedmont to Raleigh. When the “S” line is reopened to Richmond then can be extended to there. There it could combine with train 66 and go all the way to Boston. Maybe originate southbound with #67 at Boston and split at Richmond ? Then mirror the northbound trip all the way to Atlanta.
Sam1; Correct. IMHO that should have been done with the change of days opeerated. Why not assign a Horizon train set SAS - NOL and keep spare cars in NOL? That would have also freeded up a superliner train set that could be reassigned to other western trains including maybe another car on the Eagle ? That would take care of the SAS problem of switching cars to the Eagle.
That has been a question in my mind as well. If Carolinian rerouted over “S” line then Ideally the next Piedmont to be run could schedule so as to connect with the Palmetto at Selma, NC and continue to Morehead City giving present Carolinian passengers chance to go to the stops between Raleigh and Petersburg ? Any idea what that number resently is? NC DOT might disclose that number ? + maybe a few pass from south of Selma to Morehead City?
The way the Piedmont and Carolinian schedule works at this time:
The Carolinian originates in Charlotte about 7AM enroute to Boston and the Piedmont Originates in Raleigh.
At about Noon, one Piedmont originates in Raleigh and the morning equipment makes the return to Raleigh.
At about 5PM the Noon equipment makes the return trip to Raleigh and the Carolinian passes through Raleigh on the way back from Boston.
The Carolinian equipment overnights in Charlotte and Boston and both Piedmont trains overnight in Raleigh.
I don’t know how much equipment it would take to extend one or more of those routes to Atlanta or how the schedules would have to be modified, but I think it’s a great idea.
In its performance improvement plan Amtrak considers providing Chicago to Miami service by running the Capitol Limited through the DC station as the Silver Star and continuing to Miami. To continue 2 trains a day from New York it would extend the Palmetto (which now stops at Savannah) to Miami. This would use only tracks that Amtrak now uses. It would also give additional day time service to the Carolinas. It would also increase passenger revenues. However, the idea was rejected because Amtrak cannot afford it with its present budget.
The Carolinian runs daily between Charlotte and NYP, not Boston, taking over 13 hours. Extending the Carolinian over the current route to Atlanta would make it around a 19 hour trip, way too long for a day train. The Crescent takes 18 hours between Atlanta and NYP, which is better, but still too long for a day train. Both trains should see some trip time improvements with the upgrades to the Piedmont corridor, with Greensboro to Charlotte getting fully double tracked; the Carolinian with the crossover switch upgrades to the A-line in VA & NC; and getting 125 mph capable baggage cars and diners on the NEC. But not nearly enough to consider an Atlanta to NYP day train service. Which is why the Crescent runs overnight to Atlanta.
I think a possible service would be an Atlanta to Charlotte to Raleigh daily train, essentially extending a Piedmont to Atlanta. But it would be less than 750 miles and thus require state funding support, probably from both Georgia and NC, which could be difficult to get. It would also have to wait until enough new equipment is available and for a new station in Atlanta to be built. Maybe in 5-6 years.
The combining of the Capitol and Star has much merit and some few downs. On the + side -----------
1. At one time AMTRAK sold connecting service to/ from these trains but no longer does due to many misconnects. Makiing this a thru train would attract many passengers.
2. In one of the reports AMTRAK said that 40% of potential passengers will not book if changing at a station is involved to a connecting train. I have my doubts that 40% is valid today but my experience hauling airline passengers is that only in the past 40% may have been valid . (and what about all the connections that occurr in Chicago ?)
3. Connections between the Capitol and Meteor still sold but requires 6 - 9 hr layover in WASH.
4. There would be no additional train sets needed.
Problems ------
5. Equipment not yet available especially with projected ridership increases on trains. additions are expected to be 20,000 + each route; average alone ~~ 55 / day requiring at least one more coach ? . Not enough single level sleepers until present order delivered.
6. Capitol is Superliner – Star is single level and at present there is now not enough spares of either equipment available. Maybe if there is shuffling of equipment. The Silver service report said Capitol equipment would be serviced at Sanford so maybe Superliner equipment is contemplated ?
7. If Star is terminated at Orlando then the large daytime ridership Orlando / Tampa – south Florida would be lost for the most part. Palmetto would be at night for th
