Virgil Clausen over at the NCIR forum provided this link.
CSX plans to purchase an easement from L&I between namesake cities for $10 million and then upgrade the line from 25mph, 263,000 gross weight cars to a 60mph, 286,000 line with signals and sidings. The improvements will run another $70million.
According to the filing, CSX plans to route certain trains that are currently passing thru Cincinnati to the Indianapolis then accessing the ex Conrail line. The majority of these trains (up to 9 daily) will run to Sidney, Oh and then diverge on to other lines into the system. One train currently running Louisville/Evansville/Vincennes/East St. Louis will operate up to Indy and down to EStL on the Conrail line. Also, direct carload service will result from Avon Yard (Indy) to Louisville.
Current routings via Cincinnati are either on the old L&N LCL sub thru Kentucky or via the L&I up to Seymour, In then on the ex B&O Indiana Sub (2 trains daily). Either route must pass thru Queensgate Yard and over the Ohio River crossing…both time consuming. CSX sees up to 7 hours improvement on Louisville to Sidney.
This is great to see. It’s great to see a railroad be able and willing to invest money like this to grow capacity. For those of us who were around when there wasn’t enough money available to even maintain the existing route structure properly it’s quite a positive change.
My one caution is why do they have to petitiion the government for permission to make the investment. I don’t like that.
The petition is not about making the investment - it is about changing the existing trackage rights agreement to a easment and all the competitive conditions that this change will create throughout the industry.
The application is 350 pages, but only takes an hour to read, as most of it is correspondence between the railroad’s lawyers and every interested party along the route.
CSX now has a second clear route between Chicago and the Southeast and that will enable them to grow the business.
That was quite a move picking up the CN in Chicago area. That should pay dividends quickly.
I realize that different people can read the same thing and have different understandings.
My reading and understanding is that the document is focused on justifying why the railroads want to do this. I agree that they shouldn’t be allowed to enter into an agreement to restrain trade. But this petition focuses on justifying the investment, not the anti-competitive effects. Of which there are none.
Look at the letters they had to send out two years ago. They ask the Coast Guard for input. The Coast Guard? They also had to ask the Potawattami Nation in Okalahoma for input. Why the roadblocks to economic investment?
I am really troubled that the government has to approve economic investment.
Taking a page from Norfolk Southern’s playbook - the Meridian Speedway with KCS, and the Patriot Route with Pan Am (Guilford) Rwys. - as well as CN and CP acquiring rights over various other lines (including each others !), mainly in the Upper Midwest and NorthEastern US, etc.
The Coast Guard has authority over inland navigable waters, and in that area the Ohio River, at the very least is navigable and maybe others that the line traverses. From my childhood, some of which was spent in Indiana, the Potawattami have a presence in Indiana, however, the specific locations escape me.
Considering the NIMBY nature of the world in general in this country in particular, CSX is just trying to cover all the bases and provide the answers before the questions get asked. This transaction is somewhat unusual in that one company is proposing signifigant operating investment and use of the investment in a company that the investor does not own.
Perhaps the Potawattami have a casino on the Ohio River.
I really like this move by CSX…it just fills in the map quite nicely. There was talk a few years ago of getting rid of the Monon north (don’t know how serious the discussion was), but now it seems this line could really see increased business.
The CN trade seems brilliant. Access to Clearing and Bedford Park via their own tracks is an amazing coup for them. Already I hear scanner talk from CN that this is not working out for them. Trains are not receiving clearance for movement to Markham and other locations. I do not think CSX is using that route much yet, but when the crossovers are in place at Blue Island it should be fairly busy.
The old Monon route north of Indianapolis up to Monticello was abandoned by CSX probably 30 to 40 years ago. I am very familiar with what’s happened to the old right of way between Frankfort and Monticello, and there’s little likelyhood it could ever become a railroad again. Bridges and trestles are gone and a whole lot of the former ROW has reverted to being farmland and roads and businesses.
The Potawattami do have a casino in Milwuakee. The last time I was in there I was almost knocked down by a little old lady who was trying to get to a slot machine. Maybe the Coast Guard and Potawattami Nation are in on this together in an effort to increase gambling revenues. (CG views it as a way to deal with budget cuts?)
Seriously, I also really like this move by CSX. It is an action by a growing company planning for improved service. Some folks on this board will remember when there was little but contraction in US railroading. The companies had to shed capacity, not add it. It wasn’t really a matter of survival, because they had no long term prospects for survival. It was a matter of lasting as long as they could by matching physical plant to an ever declining business base.
It is nice to see such a big change.
I also like the innovation of an “Easement”. I don’t fully understand the advantages over an outright purchase or trackage rights, but I’m certain they’re there. Maybe, and I like this too, it’s a way for the larger railroad to provide through
That comment got my attention too. But I think he’s talking about the route through Crawfordsville/Lafayette, that uses a segemt of the old Conrail to access Indianapolis. Not the old line through Delphi.
As I recall, Amtrak once ran a passenger train between Louisville and Chicago via Indianapolis. Is there any chance of the passenger element weighing in on this proposed upgrade?
I seriously doubt it. Passenger trains are an impediment to freight operations and ATK pays next to nothing for the slot. In short, no rational freight management will invest money in the hope that ATK might come a’knocing.
Will address a few of the questions, based on the filing:
L&I will dispatch the line according to the filing. They currently run 2 trains daily from Indy - Jeffersonville (this probably includes overhead traffic for Indiana Railroad).
Monon north of Indy…covered above. There is a route utilized by Amtrak to Crawfordsville on the old Conrail line then north to Monon and on to Chicago. The line north of Monon is in place to a grain customer at Medaryville. Grain seems to move south to Terre Haute and then down the C&EI. New markets could open up with the routing in place to Louisville…perhaps. Louisville freight is currently moving from Indy to Cincinnati then to Louisville. Thus, Chicago - Louisville routings must go on the Q643 Chicago to Avon, then to Cincinnati on Q360, and finally to Louisville on Q505. Lots of handling. Granted there probably isn’t much Chicago to Louisville freight, but coming off of the CP, BNSF, and UP one would think there would some movements.
L&I will own the track and the 25mph aspect of the track. CSX will now own the “improvements”. These improvements, according to the filing, will be the upgrade in speed to 60mph, signal system, and sidings. Also, the line will be upgraded to handle 286,000 pound cars. CSX will own that improvement and will charge L&I for the premium (cost differential of 23,000 pounds?). Why this arrangement over trackage rights? L&I couldn’t afford the $70million improvements (which includes a new bridge). This is similar to the Meridian Speedway which NS/KSC negotiated and the PanAm investment made by NS. L&I has no reason to improve their line to handle 2 trains, but the $10million for easement allows them to rub their hands together in gleeful approval.
CSX will have no intermediate rights to handle freight on the line
One more thing: it appears L&I keeps all their existing customers. They only have to pay CSX if this traffic 'upgrades" to 286,000 per car. So if nothing changes, L&I doesn’t have to pay CSX to use their own track.
Sadly, this may be the nail in the coffin for the Monon’s South End.
One more point…last night CSX ran a Q244. This is probably an auto rack train, Louisville to Gibson (Hammond, in). The train ran west on the Chicago line, which means it ran Louisville - Cincy-Deshler-Chicago. That is a circular route. This train would be a candidate for the new routing up the L&I to Monon route.
I need a good map from CSX…time to call investor relations.
Yes, the *South Wind’*s original route was through Louisville and Indianapolis. When the condition of the track deteriorated to the point that the route became unsatisfactory, Amtrak tried several different routes, including going through Evansville. The last route of the South Wind was over the former Monon to near Chicago, and the owning road did not upgrade the track for passenger service; I rode from Birmingham to Chicago in 1978, and the flagman who came on in Louisville told me that the curves were elevated for freight service and not for passenger service.
Tha Panhandle’s passenger line from Indianapolis to Chicago is broken in at least three places in Indiana: from Frankfort to Bringhurst, from Logansport to Boone, from Winamac through LaCrosse, Maynard, and Bernice, Ill., to Calumet Park. Such track as remains is operated by short lines.
As others have posted wha exactly is the difference between easement, trackage rights, purchasing, or part owner like NS has done ? Maybe L & I would not sell ?
Deggestry: What were the best times on this line for pass trains ? Anyone have an old ETT that lists top speeds of both freight & pass ? Also distances ? Was it signaled at one time ? Any idea of he track conditions ?