I had hoped to get set up with a ZW to power our layout but I need to be realistic with budget constraints. It is a basic two loop on a 4X8 with a few switches and some operating accessories. We have two of the really basic transformers that came with two sets but I need something to help with the accessories and a little more power.
I read at one point that the CW’s had issues that were improved. How do I tell an older unit from a newer one? Or are the issues not that big of a deal. The prices of these on e-bay are right in my budget range.
Think things over. These transformers dropped in price for a reason. Fact is your layout will only get bigger and consume more power as time goes by. It’s better to invest more in a transformer now than have to upgrade/replace it later.
Shop around and don’t limit yourself to one brand. The CW-80 is a starter set transformer at best.
Make sure you factor-in shipping costs for these on eBay. At our Phila. area train shows, new CW80’s are being sold for $40. Although I have 5 CW80’s that have given me NO trouble at all, I’m not sure I’d recommend buying some, since a number of people HAVE had problems (although Lionel has been quick to replace them). Joe
Most people are suprised to learn that it is often the incandescent bulbs (as opposed to LED’s) that together quietly suck large amounts of power. There is a chart that enables you to figure out the approximate draw on your power supply from the various items on your layout.*
…
I believe the “revised” CW-80’s are have been fixed but do not recommend the old ones at any price. Two ways to distinguish the revised ones from the faulty ones are:
Use an ohmmeter to determine whether the orange or the black posts are common. Check this with the transformer unplugged and merely touch the ohmmeter probes to the two black posts indicate zero ohms when touched simultaneously. If touching the black posts sends the ohmeter to zero, you have a new one. Double check by repeating the test on the orange posts, in which case the ohmmeter should indicate virtually infinite resistance. If you get the opposite results you have an old pre-revision one.
AND/OR,
Check for the date of manufacture. On the bottom of each CW-80 you will find a four- or five-character code of the form “1105” or “G0407” presumably meaning November 2005 and April 2007 respectively. The presence of the “G” and a date of about 0907 or thereabouts indicate a revised one, or so it seems. The more recent the date the better. Note: the Lionel Customer Service Department refuses to confirm this “date” method, but it seems to work.
…
The design and manufacturing faults with the early CW-80’s are indeed a “big deal” – in all but the most basic layouts – especially if one attempts to use them with other power supplies and accessories, such as wiring “turnouts” with constant-voltage plugs. That is, in any situation where
I have used several CW-80s for basic train running, without any trouble. A VERY NICE feature of the CW-80 is its EXTREMELY LOW minimum voltage, this is very useful with many smaller locomotives and/or locos without sound. Both of my ZWs (Postwar, and New version) and my MTH Z-Series transformers all have to high of a minimum voltage to smoothly start and stop smaller engines such as Lionel’s Docksider, K-Line 0-4-0 Porter and RMT Beeps, the CW handles these wonderfully. Even my new Lionel 2-8-2 Mikado (traditional size one, not the new Standard-O model) is a little finicky with all the other transformers at slow speed, but Silky Smooth with the CWs. Also the CWs can be used on a growing layout to power lighting and other accessories, without putting a drain on the train operating transformers, whatever model they may end up being, so they won’t necessarily go to waste.
As far as the ZWs go, if you are interested in good rebuilt ones, check out pltbowie, on ebay. I got my postwar ZW from him, and I am VERY HAPPY with it. Read his description of his experience and what he does to each transformer (Yes, I know don’t believe everything you read on-line) And check out his Feedback almost perfect.
So don’t be afraid to use the CWs now, and later use them for accessories and the train(s) under the Christmas Tree. But most of all HAVE FUN with your trains,
I’d trust a politician fore I trusted a CW-80. I’ll admit that they have gotten better, but I still dont like the CW-80, and in my opinion, it makes a better paperweight than it does an electronic device.
I agree with most of what you said, especially about the low-voltage performance. I am also enthused about the programable accessory terminals feature, even though much of its potential was not realized in the pre-revision models, which was a major disappontment.
I currently have (or have had) four different pre-revision CW-80’s with no problems* given that I accepted the limitations of the device even when “factory perfect.” I still use one every day on my modest layout, despite the fact that I also have two postwar ZW’s, a KW and a 1033 to choose from.
For Christmas I intend to give my granddaughter a new Lionel set which should come with a revised CW-80. I will check it to make certain that she actually gets a revised one. The concerns that remain about the revised ones, as I understand them, are:
There is a fuse inside the case that is sealed with “tamper proof” screws. If this fuse blows beyond the period of the warranty there is no replacement, no repair – period.
The online owner’s manual still contains errors, inconsistencies and omissions. I have called this to the attention of Lionel both by phone and letter. Fortunately, these problems are largely eliminated if one uses FasTrack. Tubular track is another matter.
There is no repair service available either from Lionel itself or it’s Authorized Service Centers. Never mind that Lionel says it will repair or replace the devices at its option – that is evidently just boiler plate. Lionel has been very good about replacing defective units within the warranty period, and occasionally (very occasionally) outside of it. As a general rule, once the warranty period expires, the customer is out in the cold.
I have personal experience with all three of these problem areas with the pre-revision models. I do not have any experien
Do you have any actualexperience with the revised CW-80’s? Last time I remember hearing from you, you were literally using the pre-revision ones for target practice. Right?
Just so others are aware the MTH entry level tranformer is built the same way. They are not designed to be fixable - just replacable.
Also, if you have two tracks and want to be able to power accessories… why not go with a KW? These are great mid-level transformers and are often forgotten.
Finding a ZW for less than $100 is tough, but finding a KW for $50 - $75 is very realistic.
The KW has two variable outputs, A and B. Using the U terminal as the common, they range from 6 to 20 volts. There are also two accessory voltages, fixed at 6 (C) and 20 (D) volts. Using the C terminal as the common, the outputs vary from 0 to 14 volts; and the fixed voltages are 6 (U) and 14 (D). It has a whistle control which can be used with either variable output, but not simultaneously.
The KW has the distinction of being the only Lionel transformer whose manual warns against the popular but risky practice of connecting the outputs together.
The KW is rated at 190 watts in, 140 out continuously, or about 10 amperes. I saw two at a show last weekend marked at $135 each.
I know with the new ZW there is a feature which enables the user to set a “Stall” voltage which prevents the E-unit from cycling while you slow your loco to a stop by “stalling” the motor. This feature would make the voltage jump up from zero to your stall voltage setting when you move the handles up and could be an explanation for poor low speed/voltage performance on the new ZW. User definable setting though so you should be able to disable.
I would also recommend his rebuilds…I came very close several times to buying one of his well regarded rebuilds before I decided to buy the new ZW instead.
I think that the biggest mistake that people make with the CW-80s is that they are forgeting what it is, and what its capabilities are, it is a STARTER SET/LAYOUT transformer. For a SMALL layout or under the christmas tree, they are EXCELLENT transformers. Lionel DID NOT intend, design or market this as basement filling layout transformers, that IS what the ZWs are for. Complaining that the CWs are not up to running 300 square foot layouts is like trying to pull a 36 foot fifth wheel trailer with a Toyota SR5 pick up, the toyota pick up is an excellent truck, but was never intended for a trailer that size, that is what ONE TON TRUCKS are for. Use them for their intended purpose, and they are excellent units. I tried to run my two motored LionMaster challenger with 8 scale length illuminated passenger cars and GUESS WHAT, it didn’t work, so I got the “NEW ZW” and that bug bit me, so I “HAD” to get a Postwar ZW also, they run the Challenger and passenger cars VERY NICELY, but that is their place in the Hobby.
The CWs have been great transformers for my Nephews, Nieces and Granddaughter to learn with. As far as the price of the CWs being “SO LOW” I think that the market being flooded with CWs from “BREAK SETTING” has a LOT to do with that.
I don’t know about the new ZW’s “STALL PROGRAMING” I will have to read up on it, I admit that I opened the box plugged things in an ran trains. I’m a guy, Aren’t owners manuals for when there is SMOKE COMING OUT FROM UNDER THE HOOD? I do have mixed feelings about the NEW ZWs, I HATE the external bricks with a passion, BOTOH, if you use all 4 bricks that it is capable of handleing, you’ve got 720 watts available instead of 275 watts, so that is a worthwhile trade off. My New ZW the handles are so stiff, that without the weight of the internal transformer of the old model, it either has to be screwed down (not an option on the living room floor under the Ch
As always with this group, very helpful information and thanks!! I had seen the KW’s but did not know what a match it was for my size layout. Plus now I understand more about the CW’s!
I started years ago with KW’s. Then got some Post War ZW’s at around $100. One ZW finally had problems. Got an used core. Installed it and now it is OK. Might have been OK all along. Found a loose solder connection from the core while replacing it. It would work fine until it heated up. Bet the poor connection was the problem. Anyway, one KW ran my 60 foot long layout with multiple trains for years [until I moved and demolished it]. Can’t go wrong with either one.