http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn9LKA6iylE
Many stations on the Metra UP-W Line (The Geneva Sub) now have crossing equipped with this new system, ATWS (Another train warning system).
I tried to post this on youtube, but it kept giving me errors, so here it is here instead:
! DANGER ! Politicians think this is a good use of $$$
! DANGER ! Politicians think this is a good use of $$$
ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding
! DANGER ! Politicians think this is a good use of $$$
! DANGER ! Politicians think this is a good use of $$$
ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding
! DANGER ! Politicians think this is a good use of $$$
! DANGER ! Politicians think this is a good use of $$$
…
(edit-I knew it wasn’t spelled right before, but I couldn’t remember why it was preventing it at first. Oh well, fixed.)
Sorry to see this thread get political, but were I have to cross active tracks I would like a warning of a high speed train approaching.
My tail end is worth more to me than the damage to a locomotive than the railroad can imagine.
I wrote a little about this in “Trackside Lounge” a week ago. Thanks for the actual pictures. That scene recurs nearly every hour throughout the day, because Elmhurst is likely to be the meeting point between the daytime scoots, with a minute’s dfifference between scheduled departure times.
Annoying? Yes. Attention-getting? Maybe. It was probably required because UP will stop holding its trains clear of station platforms when a Metra train is loading or unloading. Mind you, that doesn’t mean that the passing trains won’t be sounding their own horns–they will, because the rules require it at grade crossings, even when they’re in a quiet zone. This sign is aimed purely at the people who habitually or absent-mindedly start across the tracks, regardless of the gates, as soon as their train has cleared. I suggested some alternative messages for some of the rest of us over in the Lounge last week. I’m sure that non-railfans could come up with messages of their own as well.
The point I tried to make, however, is that this system, as it’s currently set up, is not only far more annoying than it needs to be, but also is crying “wolf” a lot of the time. As could be seen, both of the trains at Elmhurst were leaving the scene, and this thing is still yakking away about “another train”. I could only wish! They need to set it up so that the approach of a second train triggers the alarm, but so the alarm stops when all trains have occupied the island circuit for the crossing in question. Because one of these times, you’ll have people getting off the train, wanting to cross, hearing the signal, thinking, "Oh, it’s just these two trains, and they’re leaving
You may want to use spell check when referring to “politicians”…really it’s more likely METRA legal staff pushed this idea (same difference, I guess)…
Here’s my main problem with it, it continues saying the warning even after the second train has gotten on to the crossing. It would be far less annoying if it shut off once the second train enters the crossing, rather than repeating over and over again. If they don’t do that, I think the entire point of putting it there becomes redundant.
One of these days when they do start running express trains past local trains, if there are two trains stopped in a station and the warning keeps going after the train has entered the crossing, people are going to assume that the second train is activating the system. Knowing people’s impatience up in that area, someone is going to ignore the warnings, thinking the trains stopped in the station are activating it, and step out in front of a third express train. It needs to shut off after the train enters the crossing! That is really going to be important when they install the system at Wheaton and Lombard, both of which have blind curves in both directions.
Currently the UP is still using the hold short rule at Wheaton, Lombard, Berkeley and Bellwood. ATWS has been installed at Maywood, Melrose Park, Elmhurst, Villa Park, Glen Ellyn, College Avenue, Winfield and Geneva, but not yet at those four stations, mainly due to other projects presently going on at those stations. I am going to guess those stations will get ATWS installed once those projects are complete. New crossovers are being installed at Wheaton and Lombard, Berkeley is supposed to get triple-tracked and Bellwood’s present station is supposed to be closed once a new one opens further east at 25th Avenue, which I’m going to guess would get ATWS installed.
And this helps the bozo with his/her I-Pod cranked up to infinity as he/she is busy texting while crossing the tracks how?
Yes it will be quite confusing as others have posted. Suggest that some announcements will need modifying. Not enough thought.
One suggestion “danger third train approaching” ??/?
another stop announcement as soon as 2nd train gets to far side of island circuit?..unless 3rd train approaching??
It goes on an on??? A possible 36 different combinations??
It is just another element of background noise to be tuned out of a persons daily life.
In the video clip shown I fully expected a train to blast past on the middle track…not announcing the two trains that plainly visible and were already at the station.
Robby, the fact that crossovers are to be installed at Wheaton and Lombard is not the reason that ATWS signals weren’t put at those places. That work is sufficiently far from the stations to not present any problems. In fact, the Wheaton control point is going to be closer to the College Avenue station (which has ATWS at both ends) than to the downtown Wheaton station.
In Lombard, the pedestrian crossing at the station platform is going to be replaced by a tunnel beneath the tracks, at roughly the same location. Elizabeth Street is off the platform as things now stand, and would probably be ineligible for ATWS (though one could make the argument that that grade crossing is also a school crossing and could use the enhancement).
There is supposed to be a pedestrian overpass somewhere in the vicinity of the Wheaton depot, but I can’t figure out why West Street doesn’t have, and didn’t get, ATWS, unless they plan on closing it to cars as well as pedestrians.
I believe Wheaton, Lombard, Bellwood and Berkeley are in the next phase of the project. The UP West improvement project website did originally say West Street was going to get ATWS, but I don’t even see the page for Wheaton up on there anymore. I would guess that West Street is eventually going to get it though.
I think this is a flawed concept.
“Another train coming” could simply be interpreted to mean another train in the succession of trains that pass by every day. Therefore, I see no reason why a pedestrian would necessarily conclude that the warning refers to the anomaly of a second train approaching, but obscured by a visible train, as the system intends.
A pedestrian is likely to conclude that the ATC message is just a supplementary warning to the bells and lights of the crossing, and therefore, miss the point of the ATC warning. After all, the bells, gates, and flashers are all working at the same time as the ATC warning. And like those bells, gates, and flashers, the ATC will sound an alarm when trains are merely standing in the circuit, further reinforcing the perception that all the warning devices opereate together and mean the same thing.
Hopefully, this system will prevent accidents, although there are some bugs to be worked out. Unfortunately some people on here still seem to regard pedestrians (and vehicles) as either annoyances or potential targets for trains and/or that any safety expenditures are a waste of money.
Off the video at the start of this thread…if that is the warning that is being given, and the circumstance under which it is being given…it is just adding more noise to be blocked out of our lives…it is not presenting any NEW information. For a additional warning to be effective, it actually has to indicate a new threat…just throwing more wattage at the same old threats creates a additional layer of immunity to the brain of those that have to process the warning. Just more clutter to be passed over.
I see your point. if you look at the Metra/UP video, it seems to make more sense. Perhaps it needs to be programmed differently?
We know what the message means, so it seems like the message is unambiguous. But I think that many, if not most pedestrians are going to simply associate the message with the train that they see, and miss the actual meaning of the message.
There is another thread on this forum about these warnings and when I first saw the thread I misunderstood the meaning of the subject line… it was “Another Train Warning System”… which I interpreted as a complaint that someone was proposing, “(Yet) Another Train Warning System” as in, “Just one more method of warning about trains”, not that it was a warning that there is another train in the area that one needs to be aware of.
I realize that there is a need to keep the message short, but I think a more proper English sentence would make a big difference in the understanding of what the message is about.
“Warning! There is another train approaching this area on an adjacent track.”
Longer, but not so ambiguous.
MAYBE after many years, and people have gotten the idea of what it is about, the message could be shortened somewhat.
The I-Zombies are a source of headaches all over. (Spent an evening with the folks from the State Highway Patrol Accident Reconstruction Teams … frightening what they see)…the locals would be offended if we put up orange diamond “stupid zone”* signs around anywhere within 50 feet of an operating track or passenger platform…but it would be the truth …
(*) get your search engine of choice, put in Quillen, Denver Post & Stupid Zone and see what you get.
It has to be better - since it is LOUDER!
My personal opinion is there is too much extra noise - both from this warning message and from the crossing gates constantly ringing e-bell - and that is drowning out what should be heard: the actual train. Maybe if the crossing gates wouldn’t keep ringing, you could hear the train as it passes the other one, and thus wouldn’t need to be lectured by the crossing.
I wouldn’t mind seeing one of these in person, though. Hopefully I’ll remember ear plugs.
I have to agree with you here, Zug. My solution (mentioned above) might help a little, but the clanging bells have long been an annoyance of mine. This is apparently a UP thing–on the BNSF “Racetrack” this isn’t a problem: as soon as a train enters the island circuit for the crossing, the bell quits. If a second train approaches the crossing, the bell rings for it. I don’t know where to find the video of the lady getting clobbered by a BN E9 at Fairview Avenue, but that is exactly what happens there, IIRC.
You forgot the Metra PA announcements trying to compete with all of this. By all means, bring those ear plugs (or, if you come out this way, I might be able to give you a pair)!