on a BNSF main line. Double tracks - right one fully signaled. Left one dark. Usually both are lit and indicative of what is going on.
They are both at the edge of the throat going into the yards.
And when a light/signal is out because of mechanical difficulty - does “it” tell anyone or do they just “discover” it?
Mookie
mookie
a dark signal means a train must come to a full stop.the dark signal will be reported to the dispatcher.usually if I see a dark signal I’ll call the rr police and let them know.
stay safe
Joe
Generally a road crew discovers the dark signal. When a signal is dark then the most restrictive indication for that signal must be assumed which is generally stop. If the territory is “stop and proceed” then they could stop and then proceed at restricted speed assuming they have authority to move beyond that signal. If the signal is “absolute” then they need verbal authority (sheessh) from the dispatcher to proceed.
Although they could monitor the lamps through current monitors I don’t think most do. It would only be practical in CTC territory and would greatly increase the cost of the signal system.
Richard
It could be the signals are approach lit.
Dave H.
Possibly but not probable being adjacent to a yard as Mookie states.
Richard
If the signal is an absolute signal it should be lit at all times. Many approach or intermediate signals only light up when a train hits the circuit it’s on. If you ride on a train at night on very straight track you can usually see the signals pop on once you get a few miles away.
I would think that a dark signal wouldn’t have caused my sister to become curious had it been approach-lit: this is obviously an unusual occurrence to her, in a place where signals usually are lit.
Richard is right–a “signal imperfectly displayed” should be regarded as showing the most restrictive aspect possible. (If you had dark-over-green instead of your usual red-over-green Diverging Clear, you’d still be good to go.)
This is a signal that like it’s mate is always lit. It’s mate on the 2nd set of tracks was lit red/red. This one was just dark - I checked it coming and going - about 2 hours apart.
Wasn’t sure if I should report it or if they knew about it.
Tisk, tisk,
Someone left home without her GCOR…
5.15 Improperly Displayed Signals
If a signal is improperly displayed, or a signal, flag, or sign is absent from the place it is usually shown, regard the signal as showing the most restrictive indication it can give. However, if a semaphore arm is visible, it will govern.
Promptly report improperly displayed signals or absent fixed signals, flags, or signs to the train dispatcher
You can also refer to that particular railroads own timetable, under special instructions, which will give any more restrictive instructions if required.
Ed[8D]
A signal w/a number plate is a intermediate signal. These are not absolute and do not even show up on the dispatchers screen. This type of signal, if dark, after stopping you proceed through the block at rule 6.27 restricted speed. Contacting the DS is not required. At a control point/absolute signal, if dark then contact w/ds is needed to obtain verbal authority–not permission–to pass the signal.
The BNSF double track mainlines in north Idaho only light up the track the train is approaching on. The paralell main next to the occupied track stays dark if no train is on that line. this includes all intermediate and absolute signals including those at cross overs.
Even ABS systems had sensors in them that could sense a burned out bulb. This would cause the preceeding signal to display an approach indication telling the oncoming crew to be prepared to stop at the next signal. Now they have additional functions that will allow a burned out clear indication to display an approach medium or flashing yellow instead of a dark indication.
Well, I am not sure I understand all this, but …
I thought about reporting it. But after the fiasco with the broken rail and having them, I am sure, think I was just a hysterical female playing railroad - I decided that since it wasn’t out in the country but was in a pretty well traveled area, someone either knew it was dark and had it that way on purpose or would report it with the next train through there. It is a well-traveled area and it wouldn’t go unnoticed very long.
I did notice some difference, tho - we park around the curve from said signal and we saw them using those particular tracks as a “staging” area. They brought an SW10 and some freight cars out there before shoving them back to be humped (they usually use the middle tracks for this) and they had a coal train running back and forth picking up the rest of his train before he left town. Unfortunately we couldn’t stay to watch his departure to see if it would be on that track or another one.
Also thought they may have some repair work going on somewhere way before this signal and that is why it was dark? This is a main line that is single track through southern Nebraska - it becomes two tracks south of Lincoln and comes into the yard as a double track. Maybe they were working on this track between the signal and where it becomes a single line? Maybe some signal cable work? Or maybe not…
I have to really work at becoming a BNSF Engineer so I can investigate my own questions and give answers instead of silly questions. And then I could take my GCOR with me all the time!
Mookie
Would be nice to see the bulletins - maybe the signal has been placed out of service, temporarily or permanently, and proper operation past it is covered there.
There are also signal indications that include dark signals. Don’t know if the BNSF uses them. For example one version of a restricting signal is dark over lunar. That’s used when entering unsignaled territory (like a yard track).
How many “heads” (signal lights or groups of signal lights) are there on each mast or over each track and what color are they?
Dave H.
Dave - there are two sets of tracks. I look at the signals that would be for the northbound traffic. They are located on the outside of each track. So two signal stands, one for each set of tracks. They normally show red/red. Once in a while, one will show yellow/red. That’s how I know something will be coming in from the south on that set of tracks. Sunday, the one on the far left was totally dark. The one on the far right showed red/red. So I just figured the left side tracks/signal were out of commission for whatever reason.
If I was an engineer on the tracks that were dark, the signal would be on the conductors side. If I was an engineer on the tracks that were lit, the signal would have been on my side.
My dwarfs had lunars on them and I would see one once in awhile, but they did away with them, so any of the signals I can see don’t have any lunars on them. And our yard seems to have signals for the signals…
Mook
Update - I know you are all waiting for this!
Went to the signals in question and did everything but rip them out of the ground to bring to the puter! Someone on the forums read this subject - I am sure - and put up signs for me! Wasn’t that nice of them!
The signals are shroud type signals - 3 color designations. The tracks run between the two of them. The left one is still dark and now has a sign that reads ’ LEFT HAND SIGNAL" and an arrow that points to the right signal.
The right signal has two shroud signals (3 color) on one pole. it has a sign that says “END CTC”, because it is going into the yard and a yellow sign on it with black numerals 20. Also HALL (which is the name of the old tower)
The signals are normally red on the top one and red on the bottom one. When something is due to come in - the colors change to yellow on the top signal and red on the bottom signal.
When you go behind the right signal (they face south) there are two signs - one sez “BEGIN CTC” (you would be leaving the yard) and the other is another big yellow sign with black numerals 45.
Still don’t know why signal is dark. Don’t even want to speculate. They do some very strange things in that whole area and since the trains don’t run into each other, I guess it is ok.
And, no, I didn’t tresspass - was on a city street that runs just inches from the tracks and no, didn’t take any pictures of the people that live around there and look at us like we are nuts. (privacy rights, you know!)
Update over.
Mookie
So now you have “the rest of the story”…
Those numbers (20 and 45) sound like speed restrictions. Sounds like you’re getting upgraded through there (but someone more familiar with the line would have to tell you for sure!).
Mookie
I believe the arrow under the “left-hand signal” sign was pointing to the track it was to control, not the other signal.
The sign was added, lest some ovrely enthusiastic hogger put his train in the ditch so he could pass the signal on the “right” side.
Mike - the sign was on the left - the dark signal. The right signal was lit, red/red.
I think my explanations aren’t too clear. This is a double track in and out of the yard. When you get out of Lincoln to the south, they combine into one track. So any trains coming into the city will be on a single track and then switch to one of these two tracks.
Going out it is just reverse. The signals are only for the incoming trains to use.
It is starting to look like the “Rochelle” double track - outbounds will use the west track and inbounds will use the east track. Rochelle still does this don’t they - haven’t looked for some time…
I will research it further - if nothing more than for my own enlightenment…