Darwinism & Public Safety (warning-may offened)

Trains Magazine General Discussion
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With all this discussion about safety at crossings, protecting the innocent from the mean, old railroads, and such, i would like to say something to Missouri and the others so worried about this subject.

It seems to be the practice these days to legislate stupidity. Four-quadrant gates, multiple lights, visual clearances of hundreds of feet, etc. Is this how we protect the stupid? Whatever happened to a person being responsible for their own actions, and the consequences thereof? The government, nor any individual, can idiot-proof the world; nor should they try. If someone is so stupid to go around gates, or ignore flashing lights, or walk on railroad tracks, then they alone should be responsible for the results. If they get killed, then that is one less idiot in the gene pool to pass on his/her stupidity to the next generation. Darwin’s theory will prove itself. We will rid ourselves of traits that are not conducive to survival.

And if this seems a bit cold to someone, observe how we as a culture are becoming more stupid each year. Look at liability disclaimers on products:
WARNING: HOT COFFEE. MAY CAUSE BURNS.
WARNING: PRODUCT MAY BE HOT WHEN REMOVED FROM OVEN.
WARNING: EXCESSIVE HEIGHT VEHICLE. MAY ROLL OVER.
WARNING: DO NOT TOUCH EXPOSED WIRES, ELECTROCUTION POSSIBLE.
and so on and so on. I mean, come on. How DUH is all that?

Our culture has become so lawyer-intensive that we have become incapable of thinking for ourselves; I wonder where it will end? Someone in a post mentioned loud radios and cell phones as reasons we have to protect their stupidity. I say if they are so brain-dead as to not be aware of the dangers of isolating oneself from one’s environment, then let them move on to the next level. I bet when they are in an ambulance, dying from a heart-attack, they will hope the other drivers are paying attention to their surroundings, so they can get out of his way on his trip to the hospital!

During my 20 y

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Zardoz - I am on my feet applauding you!

Jen

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Zardoz 1

I myself have killed 1 mangled 3 and not any of these was my fault or the railroad fault and like you I am getting tired of the whining . The fact is these people knew what they was doing. but they neglect to think of who they will invole in the accident. Like a drunk who hits and kills some one the response is I didnt mean to hurt someone. again never thinking ahead. This is one reason we have rail view camera on our engines so in court the railroad can show what happened and watch the prosecuters jaws drop when thier case is blown out of the water. and case is dismissed. the camera is hooked into the event recorder and has a recorder of its own. showing speed the bell, horn , throttle and anything else and has a mic on board to capture the horn sound . the only thing it wont do is take the memory from the crew .

The fact remains if you want to you can sue the estate and maybe we as railroaders should to maybe get people to start thinking of their actions before involving inocent people.

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I have also been involved in collisions with trespassers. I won’t say I killed anybody, because I didn’t. They killed themselves, whether they realized it or not. The actions of I and my crew members were correct and everything was done correctly and according to rule. Sadly, it doesn’t change the fact that they are no longer alive. Perhaps it is just my way of dealing with it, but I refuse to take responsibility for their actions over which I had no control that placed them in the path of our train.

LC

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Zardoz, the problem is not with you.

An ex inlaws three sons were dirving the farm truck down the road about 15 years ago. The Branch crossed this road, and the local and this band of jerks were both approaching the crossing. Lights Flashed and gates descended. Whistle blows, bells ring, headlights (fixed and occilating (read mars)) operating. Crew is watchfull.

Before I continue, I must give a bit more setting. Since the early 1970’s the SP had recorded ALL COMPANY conversations - radio, train-order, phone, everything.

I am at my desk in Hillsboro, doing my Agent thing. At the crossing, is a foamer with his girlfriend, video-tapeing the train. Video camera has sound. The foamer has a scanner tuned to the SP road frequency.

All was quiet in my humble office until the road channel erupts with “G** D****, Gordon, hang on.” In the back ground you can hear horns signaling emergency, bells ringing and shouting from all three crew members describing the raised middle finger salute the driver and middle passenger were giving the train and the “push-back” gesture of the right passenger who was standing up out the truck window. All of this along with an incredible amount of profanity.

The parents sued, of course. The lawyers, knowing of the practice of recording communications, moved to supress certain evidence as hear-say which was worded so as to include the tapes. They did not know about the foamer.

The railroad recovered much of the money these lawyers had been paid over time, the lawyers lost their licenses to practice. We gave this kid LOTS of cab rides.

Now, a little test - - - Who was stupid? Who was callous? Who was uncarring?

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I have to agree that you can only go so far in legislating, and planning, to protect the stupid from their own stupidity. A safe society is a good and desirable thing, but so is common sense. Politicians and lawyers can make careers (and fortunes) out of drafting new legislation to make it even clearer and more exact (for which read more complicated and expensive) but I was simply brought up to read and respect ‘NO TRESPASSING’, ‘DO NOT CROSS WHEN LIGHTS SHOW’ and other such signs. Maybe illiteracy is the real issue but at the end of the day people who walk or drive in front of trains simply deserve to be cited for Darwin awards. To quote a writer some time ago “stupidity is the only capital offence”. I’m a UK rail passenger, not a member of the rail industry, but I know rail travel is much safer than road travel and frankly wish I could travel more places by train. Unfortunately the road lobby here (and probably in the US) has far more influence that the rail industry, so as usual the rail industry loses out.

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The Giant Floating Head of the Great God Zardoz has spoken!..

You said it brother. Its too bad you dont know where these train haters live. You could set that giant stone idol right down on top of them and end their misery.

Yeah , I read that novel also.

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zardoz1,

Very well said.

And to add one to your stupid warnings list, I saw this one on a hairdryer:

DO NOT USE WHILE SLEEPING

I still haven’t figured that one out.

Derrick

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Man you must be one low life. Down below the whale dung somewhere. There is no video cameras in the U.S.

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Mr.Pines lives in sullivan mo.check the sullivan website and the paper editorial dated 7-5-03 for more info.
stay safe
joe[}:)]

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True, they alone should be responsible, but it doesn’t always end that way. In addition to getting themselves killed they end up killing someone else in the process. Easiest example is drunk driving: the drunk driver may end up being killed or seriously injured, but how many times have we heard about other people on the streets and highways killed because someone drove drunk?

In regards to railroading: going through some old magazines the caption for a newly repainted engine states it hit a dump truck in Nov. 2000. The truck driver and a railroad manager, an innocent victim, riding in the locomotive cab, were both killed (TRAINS Aug. 2001pg 26). Because of the truck driver’s irresponsible actions an innocent person was killed.

That “missouri,” aka “mike,” aka “mikepapula,” aka “mr. pines?” aka who-knows-what-else?" is a wacko. Just like those anti-suv people. He hates all aspects of railroading with a purple passion and we’ve all seen this. I can imagine him banging the keyboard and foaming at the mouth over all this. This is his only outlet. The newspapers don’t print his letters to the editor he sends in probably 7 times a week. Here he gets instant publication and recognition. What he’s doing is nothing new. When railroads were first invented they were hated for, guess what, being dangerous even way back then. So don’t be too shocked or upset. “If you think you found something new, then you don’t know your history.” -Harry S. Truman, 33rd US President.

This country was built on the railroads. Everything you have was moved across the country on a railroad. Your car, your computer, your clothes, even the food you eat.

"missouri likes to overdo it. You can reason with him as much as you can with a brick wall. It’s like listening to a

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[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by ironhorseman

True, they alone should be responsible, but it doesn’t always end that way. In addition to getting themselves killed they end up killing someone else in the process. Easiest example is drunk driving: the drunk driver may end up being killed or seriously injured, but how many times have we heard about other people on the streets and highways killed because someone drove drunk?

In regards to railroading: going through some old magazines the caption for a newly repainted engine states it hit a dump truck in Nov. 2000. The truck driver and a railroad manager, an innocent victim, riding in the locomotive cab, were both killed (TRAINS Aug. 2001pg 26). Because of the truck driver’s irresponsible actions an innocent person was killed.

That “missouri,” aka “mike,” aka “mikepapula,” aka “mr. pines?” aka who-knows-what-else?" is a wacko. Just like those anti-suv people. He hates all aspects of railroading with a purple passion and we’ve all seen this. I can imagine him banging the keyboard and foaming at the mouth over all this. This is his only outlet. The newspapers don’t print his letters to the editor he sends in probably 7 times a week. Here he gets instant publication and recognition. What he’s doing is nothing new. When railroads were first invented they were hated for, guess what, being dangerous even way back then. So don’t be too shocked or upset. “If you think you found something new, then you don’t know your history.” -Harry S. Truman, 33rd US President.

This country was built on the railroads. Everything you have was moved across the country on a railroad. Your car, your computer, your clothes, even the food you eat.

"missouri likes to overdo it. You can reason with

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And you wonder why the railroads have programs to close private crossings…

Missouri, your ramblings make less sense everytime I hear them. Why don’t you take a break and get a life?!?

LC

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I’ve be reading all the post on this subject and finaly had to say something.
No gates ,no signals poor sight distance ect. It don’t mean anything .
There is no excuse for placing one’ s body in front of a moving train.
If you do YOU are the only one at fault. YOU only YOU are responsible.

BTW the cook top I installed today must be safe becuase it has a warning that the sufaces get hot printed on it.

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My wifes hairdryer warning label don’t use while standing in water!
stay safe[:0]
joe

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I’m starting to really worry about Missouri. I think he’s on the verge of snapping…

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The phrase I like is “culling the herd”. Amen.

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An old friend used to refer to it as “Keeping the population of the Caribou down…”

Sometimes I think, especially with suicides which make up a substantial percentage of railroad trespasser fatalities (the next largest group being substance abusers), would be an analogy to Lemmings…

LC

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Any one want to mail missouri a map to the nearest beach?
Please?
I will foot the postage.[:D]

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Ed-

I think Mr. Voss has already done an admirable job of that…lol…

LC