is it better to use the tried and true ac hook up or use a bridge rectifier or use a DC Powerpak I just purchased a Lionel Number 6-34164 Auto Gateman. I am placing it next to a Real Trax loop of Track on the Third tier of my Christmas display. and as this is my first real accessory beside a couple of light towers i need to know how to hook this thing up and the best way to get it to work without a lot of problems and have it work reliably. as far as a trigger mechanism i am considering a Railking ITAD but am unsure of how to wire it.
Thanks for the Help in advance
bobbie
Well for starters, I can tell you personally the MTH ITAD will work off DC power. Years ago I called MTH with the question and they didn’t know… so I tried it and it does work. The ITAD is very sensitive to other light in the room - even other lights on the train layout itself. So consider that when setting it up. Still, the ITAD is light years ahead of the weight activated contacters.
As for it being “better” to run the gateman on either AC or DC, the real advantage of using DC current is to eliminate the buzzing sound of the solenoid when the accessory operates - should that noise bother you. Other than that, it is probably easier to use AC especially if that’s what you use to power your layout.
Personally for me, I gave up on the ITAD and insulated rails and have wired up all trackside signals, etc. to pushbuttons, which makes wiring up DC current a little easier. On a small layout it is actually a little nicer to not have these signals and accessories going off on every passing of the train. And it is more fun for visitors (and even myself) to participate and operate signals and such.
thanks for the info all the guys here on the forum have been great and have helped a lot
I put up a very large Christmas display every year and run up to 13 consists on it. I am always looking for things to improve and Things to WOW for the next year so that it does not get boring.
Bobbie
For reliability and simplicity, you can’t beat control-rail operation.
You can use AC or DC with a control rail. The only restriction that there might be with DC is that, if you want to make your own full-wave DC with a bridge rectifier, you can’t use a transformer that is otherwise connected to the track.
I have the coil on my 145 Gateman wired with a bridge rectifier and it sounds so nice now. No loud buzzing, scaring the heck out of the neighbors!!!
Out of a fear of getting into too much detail, I hesitated to describe what I think Dave did with his gateman, that is, wire a bridge rectifier just upstream of the coil. If you don’t mind getting into the innards of your accessory, this is a way to have your cake and eat it too.
answers part of the question
How is the thing wired and should i use a Railking Itad to activate it
and do i have to use a bridge if i use a DC power supply I want to have this thing as quiet as possible as i really dont want to spook the cat and wind up with a lot of scenery down the toilet.
I also want to have this thing work on its own
Bobbie
How do you want to activate it? ITAD, contactor, or control rail?
ITad i think would be the easiest
I am using Real Trax Track so a contactor is out of the question and i am not sure about a control Rail so at this point i am considering the ITAD
Anyone here who knows about the ITAD–you’re “it”!
sorry Lionelsoni But i didnt mean anything by it
I hope i didnt offend
Bobbie
Not at all. I just wanted to encourage someone knowledgable to help you out.
I have a couple of the R-K Itads on my layout and they are VERY sensitive to lights and reflections. I had to position structures, trees and bushes to shield them in order to get proper function. I do not think you would be happy with them on a Christmas layout with lots of lights and 13? lighted trains moving around the layout. Could be a real nightmare.
It is easy to create an insulated rail section with realtrax. Just insulate the bronze contacts on one section with some plastic tape before you join them, then put a lockon on that side of the track and connect your accessory to it. Of course you have to have your feed lockon, on the other outside rail.
if i can figure out how to post a RR Track Track plan image you would understand that the light issue for the ITad wont be a Problem. I have Several Spots on that track that go under the upper decks. and also this particular deck is completly hidden in the back and only visible on Two Sides The Front and the left at the end of a 6’ bridge. I have photos from the year before and it would show you how this comes together. Now here is how i was figuring on working it. The Railking ITAD can be powered seperately than track power. I have several DC Power packs because of my G-Scale Trains. I place the Itad about a foot behind where the Gateman should sit on the opposite side of the track under the upper deck in the dark. When my Coca Cola Bigboy freight comes around and through the tunnel it would trigger the gateman and keep it triggered till the last caboose went by on a 18 Car Freight Train it would then go back in after the caboose left the ITAD.
Now here is the questions i need answered and i am sorry if i appear to be gruff
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Can I Use a DC Power pack to power both the Gateman and the ITAD ?
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If The ITAD would work How would i wire both the ITAD and the Gateman to run off DC so that it runs Quietly without the annoying buzz that we get when the solonoid is Activated.
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If this will not work then I guess i will have to install a Bridge rectifier like in the CTT article posted above somewhere in this thread and work off an insulated center rail
once i know how to post pics I will show you where this would go and where i would put the ITAD to shield it from light
Thank you
Bobbie
Bobbie, in answer to questions one and two: yes you can use the same DC power pack to run both the ITAD and the Gateman, but it needs to have enough power to do so. A DC power pack that comes with a starter train set will be fine. One of the DC wall adapter power boxes might not have enough power… but those come in all sorts of power outputs.
Wiring up the Gateman with DC current would be no different than wiring it up with a normal AC transformer… but the DC current will eliminate the buzz of the solenoid.
But going back to question one, the typical starter set DC power pack will NOT have the reserve power to run a bunch of accessories at one time the way a much larger Lionel transformer will. You would need one of the larger DC power packs made by MRC to do so. But the small starter set DC power pack will do fine for a couple accessories, maybe even several depending on the power requirements to operate them.
I have a bunch of accessories wired into one single DC power source. But the key here is they are momentary operation, so they do not use constant power and I don’t operate them all at one time. I have also wired the lights in them to a separate power source. Lighted buildings and accessories can draw much more current than you would think they would. The power requirements of the typical 12-18 volt bulbs that are used in many Lionel accessories adds up very quickly. Which is why you read of people having several LW, TW or ZW transformers to power a single layout.
A trick here is to use lower voltage light bulbs, so that you can run more lights from one power source. But the bulbs need to be compatible with the operating voltage required by the accessory. In other words, a 3-5 volt light bulb in an accessory that needs 12-14 volts to activate is going to burn out REAL fast. Which is why I have wired the illumination separately from the power source that operates the accessor
I have accessory transformers to run other accessories on the layout this would be a dedicated single use transformer. I have a MRC Tech II Railmaster 2400 I also have a Trainpower 6200 as well as set packs and Bachman set Transformers. I dont run a lot of accessories on this layout. For most of the lighting i use plugin Dept 56 Bulbs as those are most of the buildings i use. the other are Cereamic Trees that are wired for 120 Volt wall plugin. as far as the lights on the coca cola bill board they are controlled by a seperate Ac Signal Transformer My grandfather gave me. I use my ZW’s and my American Flyer transformers for Track only I also do not have many lights or op Accessories on this layout it has grown from a modest 4 foot by 8 foot under the tree to a 6 foot wide by 12 foot long display that uses 4 tiers and goes around the tree. this also includes a 3 foot by 5.5 foot window to the side of the display that i put a tree in and have either a G-Scale or a pair of O-Scales run from it into the original layout. The coca Cola Display in the front is all powed by plug in power. including the Cable Cars. I wish i could post a pic of it so you could see it and understand how this fits together
yes i got the email and yes was right on track as they say
thank you very much for putting up with me
bobbie
Generally, lower-voltage lamps draw more current than higher-voltage ones. For example, the very common number 53 draws 120 milliamperes at 14.4 volts, while the very similar number 51 (used in 2400-series cars) draws 220 milliamperes at 7.5 volts; but they both put out 1 candlepower and last 1000 hours. The 53 uses only about 5 percent more power than the 51.
An advantage of higher voltage lamps is that the wire doesn’t have to be as big. For example, a 14.5-volt circuit feeding number-53 lamps can get away with 4 AWG sizes smaller wire than a 7.5-volt circuit feeding number-51 lamps.
One thing you don’t want to do is to run any lamp at a higher voltage than it’s rated for. The lifetime drops about 12 percent for each 1 percent of overvoltage.
Thanks guys i hooked it up today and it worked like a charm. I used a DC Train Transformer and hooked it directly to the Real Trax Itad. then set the Itad to accept secondary tap and not track power. set the itad beside the track and lo and behold it all worked just like it was supposed to. Thanks ever so much for all the help advice and patience with me.
Here are some pictures of 2 years ago however my display pics of last year were lost in a hard drive crash . but it pretty much shows ho i put this together.
http://s768.photobucket.com/albums/xx329/Bobbie21921/Christmas%20Display/?albumview=grid&fullsize=DSCF1584.jpg
http://s768.photobucket.com/albums/xx329/Bobbie21921/Christmas%20Display/?albumview=grid&fullsize=DSCF1579.jpg