Debating DC vs. DCC

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
21

OK, I’ll offer a few thoughts.

As many on here know, I’m a DC guy, and don’t like onboard sound in small scales like HO.

So much for disclaimers.

Based on the OP’s discription of his layout plans, I would ask him some questions.

Do you like sound or think you will want it in the future?

Do expect to build a bigger layout latter or is this going to be all the space you have for a while?

Do you have any interest in signaling, dispatching, etc?

Are you interested in other forms of prototypical operation or just want to run trains?

If the first answer is YES, go for DCC, go all in and get a good full featured system.

If the second one is yes, keep in mind that DCC wiring on large layouts is not the “two wires” you hear tell about. As layout size grows and desired features grow, DCC will require more wiring just like DC, just a different sort of wiring. Some feel this “different sort” of wiring is easier, I’m not sure I understand why they think that. This is not to say DCC or DC would be better, just understand bigger always means more, DC or DCC.

Signaling and dispatching also reqiure lots of wiring either way. If you like computers and programing type stuff, a DCC/computer interface system might be best for that. If you like more traditional control panels and user controls, DC might be just as effective and cost a little less. But DC will require more advanced planning and is harder to “Grow as you go”

If just want to run trains, DCC can let any train go anywhere, that’s what many today like about it.

DCC is not that hard to learn about, but there is a lot to learn. I consider that two different ideas.

Both can be as simple or complex as you want depending on your goals. You may want to t

22

No, this is not bad advice

23

Give serious thought to independent power for lighting and turnouts. Having the DCC unit run the trains makes things much easier, especially when a problem arises. toy transformers or 9 or 12 volt wallwarts will do a great job.

24

I agree with going with DCC. I started a new layout about 18 months ago. I had been a “life long” DC block wiring fool. DCC is SOOO MUCH easier to wire. No blocks, much less wiring. I have the Digitrax Empire Builder. It is made to be expandable. I am still learning and am frequently asking others for helpful suggestions such as PM42 power manager for subdistricts. The best part of DCC for me was how quickly I was able to begin running trains! Good luck.

25

Yes it is.

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To you, yes. To me, no. The OP already indicated he has no knowledge of DCC. Neither did I when I first contemplated changing over. I was already in the process of building a DC layout and I used the time to read up on DCC and learn what I could about it. During that time I ran my layout as standard DC. I chose to experiment a little with DCC and chose the Bachmann EZ-Command as a simple entry-level system to get to know DCC better. I also sought out friends who had more complicated system such as the Digitrax Zephyr, which I quickly learned how to use. When I got my own it was no problem to go from simple running to programming. Now what would you suggest I should have used to run my layout before I went to DCC. Batteries? DC was what I knew and I used it until I learned more about the new technology.

27

I, myself, do not believe one can say there is a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answer to this question. I’ve yet to come across some kind of ‘decision-o-meter’ that will tell me anything like ‘Right’ or ‘Wrong’.

I came to know DC through my father’s involvment with his own design and construction of his layout, and consequently, of my own layout. His had 5 power districts and 4 LDE’s built in and around the circuit. Mine was an ISL on a 2’ x 8’ shelf type set up. My ISL had 2 power districts. Both of our layouts did have those–ohno ohno!!—toggle switches. Enough to run the layouts. No more. No less. Not the huge panels we see that pepper entire layouts with gazillions of toggle switches in our collective mythology. My father, and hence myself through his example, wired our layouts with care. That got so we ended up being able to troubleshoot the darn things without some kind of schematic!![:P]

Currently I’m using NCE’s Power Cab unit and have found that quite sufficient for my own use. Since my branch/shortline is a model of a ‘blind’ ROW I usually only run 3 trains tops. I will say that there is not much wiring in this fellow’s layout, but there was never the great heaping piles of wiring and the tons of toggle/slide switches of yore either.

28

So why is it bad? GoFastTurnLeft said he plans to run two engines on separate levels, he could do that with as few as two blocks, no more aggravation or time than wiring it for DCC. He already has a couple of power packs, so there wouldn’t be any added expense there. I would not advise that he wire the layout with dozens of blocks for DC control if he is considering DCC; however, it does make sense, especially for someone with no DCC knowledge, to go ahead and get the layout up and running with DC and then switch it over.

29

As the first responder, I should point out that I did not say go DC and avoid DCC, but get some track in place and have some fun with a DC controller. Then as you gain more knowledge about the capabilities of DCC and start to form an opinion and list of needs switch later. I don’t advocate installing a highly complex multi-block DC system, but that is not necessary to get some trains running, I don’t see how that is “bad” advice. It may not be the same as “your” advice, but simply an opinion that the OP is quite free to reject. I don’t advocate running out and getting a DCC system without some knowledge and consideration as this is how mistakes are made.

30

I want to first apologize for being vacant for the last day. My inability to get free time to read through everyone’s well thought-out answers has led to all sorts of questions, leading to more confusion, and for that I apologize.

The idea behind the layout I’ll be doing is two tracks running relatively independant of each other (but with switching connecting the two). There’ll be a small yard off to one side with 3 or 4 lanes of rail. The amount of time I’ll spend operating the switching has yet to be determined, as I’m still laying things out on paper beforehand.

The only thing I’m really lacking to get going (minus the DCC thing) is track, so cost isn’t too much of an issue. The main thing about the DCC that I find very helpful is the idea behind manually controlling each engine independantly. The downside is the potential long-range cost of upgrading my smallish fleet (about 10-15 engines if I were to get them all retrofitted with DCC decoders) to DCC.

The only other downside to the DCC option that I’m seeing is having to relearn the whole concept of wiring the layout. I still have all of my old wire guides that I had from 15 years ago and figuerd that would help in a DC environment. While my understanding is that the DCC option makes the amount of wiring less, the “how” aspect of it is what concerns me a bit.

31

If your main concern, then, is to get up and running then go with what you already have. Cost may not be as big a factor then. I find that sometimes it is better to go with what you know so at least it is going then you can research the DCC market and get what would work—for you. [:)]

Now, as regards upgrading to DCC decoders one can do them in steps so at least the cost factor there is kept to a dull roar. But do yourself a favour—avoid getting those MRC decoders as they have a bad habit of being DOA when you get them----as a few of my friends have had occur recently[:-^]

32

I don’t think anyone else gave you this web address? http://www.wiringfordcc.com/ it is a bit dry, but has a lof of good information.

33

Go Fast, do you have any DC power packs? If so get some track and lumber and start having fun. When I went DCC all I had to do is hook up the two wires like many here have said.

When I was DC, I had a power pack for the A line and one for the B line. Where the A and B hooked up I used plastic rail joiners. I wired some of my spurs using Atlas Selector Switch’s so I could kill the power to that section to park engines. All I had to do to go DCC was solder the power wires together that went to the DC transformers and hook them to the DCC system.

Only thing critical in wiring DCC, make sure you use 18 gauge or bigger for your buss wire! Ask me how I know! My original section wiring was fine for DCC all 18 gauge. I then added a new section that was free standing. (it is now part of the main bench) On this section I used 22 gauge wire as feeders. I want to get power to this section, so I temperately ran 22 gauge wire from it’s blocks to the main bench. Never got a round to changing it. Started eating decoders.

With DCC and to small of buss wire, the resistances caused by the small wire made the DCC system think it need to put out more power, and the overload protection does not kick in. Simon 1966 came by and spotted the problem, replaced the wire with 14 gauge (just happen to have some handy, 18 would have been fine) and problem is gone.

If you go DCC, here is my advices. Wire up 2

34

GoFastTurnLeft,
Wiring DCC can be very, very simple. Literally, two wires from your DCC system to the track and you are done. You will have control of multiple trains on multiple tracks in multiple directions with a mere two wires. It can’t get much easier than that.

In any wiring project, be advised that there is a difference between making something reliable vs. simply making it work. Using just two wires will work, but it may not be reliable, offer the best performance, or handle all your wants and needs. There are methods of wiring a DCC layout that will make it bulletproof, make it handle any possible future situation, and make it do anything you want it to do up to and including computer controlled signalling and detection and using your cell phone to run trains remotely. Just about anything is possible with DCC. It’s up to you to determine what it is you want, then wire the layout up appropriately.

The simple two wire DCC layout relies on rail joiners to make electrical contact for each piece of rail. This is not the most reliable because these can get loose, dirty, or otherwise break contact. In this respect, most people will recommend that all track have a soldered wire connection to it. One can either use feeders (a feeder is a wire soldered to the rail, then drilled down from the top and connects under the layout to a power supply wire or “bus”) or jumpers (a jumper is a wire that’s soldered to the end of one rail, then looped under the roadbed up to the next rail). This should be done regardless if you are DC or DCC. It’s simply good wiring practice…but not necessary. I use a 14AWG pair of stranded wires under my layout that I connect feeders to every 9 feet or so with jumpers inbetween feeders.

A simple two wire DCC layout also uses one power suppl

35

Hi,

Some of the post here are informative to say the least,Ive been a MR all my life (from childhood) and Im just starting to think about DCC,I currently am working on a 12’x16’ layout and have decided to go with dcc after watching how it works on club layouts…Ive seen several different sets but Im kinda leaning toward the Bachmann starter set to get the basics down first…Can any of you give a testimonial on the Bachmann sets,the larger one is what Im interested in not the basic( I will be expanding it to controll everything eventually)…Does anyone else make a starter set that is expandable?

Thanks for the info …

36

Digitrax. Anything made by Digitrax will work with any other Digitrax component.

37

Danny,

Yes, both Digitrax and NCE make very good starter sets that are expandable. Digitrax has the Zephyr and NCE has the Power Cab.

Tom

38

If you don’t mind cheap and not very detailed looking then Bachmann is for you. I’m not sure what your style is. I mean if Tyco is good in your opinion, then by all means go for the Bachmann set.

If you want quality and detail then buy your DCC system and locomotives separately. Stick with Digitrax Zephyr or NCEpowercab for a nice DCC starter set . Both can be purchased around the $150 mark or so on sale. Both offer excellent drop in decoders as well. Atlas Trainman is a very nice affordable starter locomotive.

39

Thanks for you comments guys,I guess I should look at digitrax,I just thot digitrax was more for the guys who know more about dcc than I do…

I already have several locos that are dcc ready,all Athern Genisis…

40

I’ll jump back in after reading all the posts so far. I’d suggested going with DCC from the start. I’ll update my comments in summary with saying DCC is no longer a brand new technology… its been around long enough and has been proven. (Check the forum history on this topic to prove that). Exhaustive research and head scratching to choose a reliable system is not needed… go with Digitrax or NCE as recommended by many and you can not go wrong. Do the simple buss wiring with feeders to each run of rails (as good for DC as well) … and get going. Forgot all the smoke screen around programming … do the minimal which is easily understood and you’ll be up and running almost immediately after track and wiring is finished. (You can learn more complicated programming later, if ever). You can run test the wiring as you finish laying an wiring each run of rail until all is finished. Enjoy the running of two or three trains by one person with direct cab control, and without throwing block switches.

One qualifier… added cost for the DCC unit… which didn’t sound to be an issue for you here.

Hal