Defend Your Choice of DCC Command Station

Model Railroader
103

ESU user here. I’ve also owned Digitrax and NCE systems.

I’ve owned my ESU CabControl for probably seven or eight years, and I have never regretted it. Owning a LokProgrammer allows me to purchase basic 21-pin decoders and program them for any of my locomotives. I can swap decoders (e.g., when selling a locomotive) and reprogram the salvaged decoder for another engine. The LokProgrammer makes programming so much easier than messing with CVs. I don’t even use JMRI anymore. I don’t miss it, either. There is a bit of a learning curve to the LokProgrammer, but there’s tons of YouTube videos out there.

The ESU Mobile Control II (handheld controller) is fantastic in that you can much more easily access more functions than you can on Digitrax and NCE controllers. You can easily customize the functions in the decoders and on the display of the controller. The one drawback, to me, of the Mobile Control II is that it’s touch screen. I prefer buttons, so you can feel and press the correct one without even looking at the display. That disadvantage, however, is completely mitigated by my use of Iowa Scaled Engineering’s ProtoThrottle on my layout, which meshes well with a number of DCC systems, including the ESU CabControl.

Also, ESU is constantly offering software upgrades (free online) for the CabControl, Mobile Control II, LokProgrammer, and V5 decoders. Because of recent software upgrades to these decoders, I have not only standardized on ESU, but now I’m standardizing on V5 decoders. Many of my old V4 and LokSound Select decoders were sold with locomotives earlier this year. I was able to swap and reprogram the decoders for the locomotives they ended up in. Easy peasy. Not to mention, I was able to revert the old V4 and LokSound decoders back to factory specs on the LokProgrammer before selling, because the customized programming for my fleet standards would likely not work on someone else’s layout.

Customization and upgrades of software are the main advantages of ESU’s system, not to mention ESU’s website of hundreds of downloadable sound projects for each of your locomotives. A perfect example is my Aberdeen & Rockfish R.R. GP38. With the use of YouTube videos, I’ve got the horn and bell almost exactly like the prototype’s. Nice.

Oh, and no dynamic brake? I could program the unit with a “coast” sound effect, or I can do this:

:rofl::rofl::rofl: By deleting a number of unused sound effects in the decoder, I was able to get enough memory to add my favorite R.E.M. song, “Driver 8,” to F4.

DFF

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104

HO scale. Two levels in a 41 ft x 14 ft room. A large yard on each level, double track main between levels plus a branch line on each level with multiple sidings for industries. Auxiliary DCC buss for turnouts powered by a Tam Valley 3-amp booster.

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105

Wow, a 10 amp HO scale. How interesting! Thanks.

Rich

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106

Not “Losing My Religion”?

“Everybody Hurts”?

“Nightswimming”?

Rich

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107

Very nice analysis here, Dave. Thanks for posting.

Rich

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108

I have a TCS LT-50, an inexpensive beginner system where the command station is part of the tethered throttle. It does everything its designed to do. The tether is only 7 ft long and may be a limitation depending on the style of layout and required reach. Simple easy to operate. Nice throttle. The operator’s manual could be better but was good enough to get a train running. Customer support was excellent at the time I purchased but has tapered off in recent months.

My past experience was DC operation with a radio walkaround throttle. Lone wolf operation and the layout can only handle one moving train at a time. Gotta have walkaround control, 100 times more important (IMHO) than DCC. It is possible to add a walkaround throttle to the LT-50 by adding a rr-cirkits locobuffer, a wifi throttle (cell phone or TCS wifi throttles), and a pc to connected to your home wifi. Your home wifi interacts with the throttle and LT-50 through the a PC. You’ll need to learn JMRI to use a cell phone as a throttle and to use Decoder Pro to program your decoders.

I chose this system because I am a DCC neophyte, desired an inexpensive system, and could use my laptop and old cell phone when operating trains. It’s a PITA to not have a dedicated PC at the layout but an opportunity to pick up a cheap, used laptop. A cell phone can be acceptable option for a throttle but I would rather have a full featured throttle such as the UWT-50.

I’m moving in a couple years and do not know what my future holds for a model railroading. The Mrs wants a 55+ community home which tend to be single level homes with around 1,500 square feet of living space. Hopefully, a small switching layout is in my future. I’m too old to consider a larger layout and too inexperienced so do not require large space for a railroad.

109

When complete there will be 6 to 8 operators running up to 12 sound locos. Currently about 60% complete and 3 to 5 operators.

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110

Oh, nice. I’m a lone wolf, envious that you host 6 to 8 operators.

Rich

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111

Rick, that for that interesting and informative reply. Another happy TCS user.

Rich

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112

Ahh, there is nothing better than a large unfinished basement. That’s the good news. The bad news is that my wife will only let me have 1/3 of it.

Rich

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113

This question is the equivalent of a religious war!

I have used Digitrax (home, club, and friends), NCE(friends and club), and CVP (friend).

When you get to the bottom line, people prefer what they are used to. All have advantages and disadvantages.

When I bought my Digitrax system, around 1998(?) it was what my local hobby shop had and I have seen no reason to change. When my command station/booster failed last year I just replaced it with the latest versions. It also saved me the need to replace 14 throttles. I guess once you have a system, to a certain extent you’re locked in (or would be skipping a mortgage payment to make a change)!

At home, I use JMRI Decoder Pro for programming decoders and am moving towards WiThrottle on used iPhones and iPads. Both of these to a great extent isolate the user from the idiosyncrasies of the individual systems. For the Digitrax throttles in use, I have labels on the back of the device to explain acquiring and releasing locos which for the most part is all the operator needs to know. I don’t have any layout automation (i.e. turnout or route control) and only have a few sound equipped locos so operators don’t need access to a lot of functions.

Most of the throttles at the yards / towns on my large layout are Digitrax “UTx” throttles, very simple to use (like a DC throttle) and not intimidating to new users. The WiThrottles and more complex Digitrax throttles are used by the road engineers and main yard to handle consists or other more complex activities.

If you host open houses or operating sessions, handing a visitor who uses DC (or never operated a model railroad) a Digitrax DT400, DT602, or an NCE Powercab can be intimidating with all the buttons and knobs. It can also be a distraction to you from dispatching, or fixing the mechanical or electrical issues that always (or only) crop up during those events, when the visitor accidentally hits the wrong button.

All, of course, in my humble opinion…

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114

It is not a question. It is a command! :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

But, you are to be forgiven because you wrote an excellent reply. :smiley:

Thank you.

Rich

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115

how do you do this with DC?

I don’t. I’m not going to build an elaborate DC throttle that can limit max voltage separately for each locomotive. Whereas, in DCC that is just a setting that is customized on each decoder.

i don’t understand how DCC can be any different than using a DC throttle

Again, I can customize momentum, max speed, # of speed steps on each decoder. If the feature is available on a DC throttle, it has to be reset for each change of locomotive.

But I use simple, cheap DC throttles without momentum, max voltage adjustment, etc. I make use of the throttle arc that keeps my speed in a suitable band - sometimes pretty narrow depending on the motor and gearing in the model. Which is fine for the time being.

When I get around to installing decoders, then I will customize settings for each locomotive.

Fred W

116

To be honest, it’s so long since I’ve used Digitrax that I wouldn’t like t make a comparison.

Lee

117

so you’re saying DCC provide better options?

118

Blockquote so you’re saying DCC provide better options?
What point are you trying to make with your questions?

DC throttles were/are capable of what a decoder does (except for sound, and even sound was developed) before DCC was available. Wasn’t simple, and wasn’t trivial, since the same throttle had to control multiple engines.

The DCC decoder gives each engine the ability to have it’s characteristics adjusted without affecting other engines because the decoder serves as an individual addressable throttle. Other decoder-based systems have the same capabilities - which may or may not have been developed.

Therein lies the key DCC difference to me - being able to adjust throttle settings on individual engines. The DC throttle must be adjusted each time the engine it controls is changed.

One could use (and some have done so) a DCC decoder as a DC throttle. But again, if the desired decoder settings vary from engine to engine, it’s more difficult to manage.

Fred W

119

so you’re saying DCC provide better options customized for each loco? (of course)

120

I said the end result is easier to achieve with DCC. All of what DCC does had been achieved with analog DC before DCC was invented, including sound (see Herb Chaudiere, 1966). It was known that different motors operated better with different shaped pulses - which is still true. The optimum PWM freq for a can motor is below 200hz - if the motor can shed the heat. The optimum PWM for a coreless motor is above 10Khz because it can’t shed the heat.

PWM is not even the optimum wave form for most motors except at the very lowest speeds. Pure analog DC works better once any cogging and/or hitches in the gear train have been overcome, generating less heat in the motor. However, the gaps in the PWM spikes allows the motor BEMF to be read, which allows for features such as constant speed, sound synchronization without a contact, and other PWM “goodies”.

PWM is universal in DCC decoders because it generates the least heat in the decoder allowing the decoder size to be very small. PWM generates the most heat in the motor, which is mostly tolerable.

A DC throttle normally has sufficient bulk to have heat sinking for wave forms other than PWM - the base of my handheld Darlington transistor throttle is a big heat sink (2" x 3" aluminum sheet), so I can have a fairly pure DC wave form without anything getting hot.

Each system has its pluses and minuses, with DCC having the advantage of having an individual throttle in every engine. This allows customization of the throttle parameters for that particular engine. The cost is having to equip every engine with its own addressable throttle (decoder).

The DC advantage is that one is not limited to PWM waveforms. The cost for DC is having to understand your motors and throttles to optimize settings and waveforms.

Fred W

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121

Nice!! A fellow R.E.M. fan and ESU user.

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122

I started in DCC with a used MRC Command 2000, which I bought for $20. I even built a handheld throttle for it, based on plans I found on the Internet. I sold it for $20 and bought the MRC Prodigy, which I used for a few years. In the meantime, I used a variety of systems on friends’ layouts–CVP EasyDCC, Digitrax, Lenz, NCE. One gentleman was still using Hornby Zero1 (!) I found NCE the easiest and Digitrax the most difficult.

I grew frustrated with the Prodigy and I found a Roco Lokmaus II system for cheap and bought that, as I could use JMRI with the Lenz LI101. I used that for several years, as I loved the throttle with the big knob. As time passed, I built a DCC++ setup using an Arduino UNO and Shield to use with JMRI on a discarded laptop to program locomotives, as my Roco Lokmaus system couldn’t read CVs and had trouble writing to some decoders. That evolved into a system on a Nano and shield, controlling an H bridge for higher amperage, a hand me down router, and some old discarded phones and tablets running Engine Driver.

I have since updated to DCC-EX, and use my old DCC-EX system just for programming, and I now run DCC-EX on a Mega and the 8874 shield, running JMRI on a Raspberry Pi w/wifi, with two outputs for layout control. The only thing I miss is a big knob for throttle control, but there are a variety of projects linked to DCC-EX I could build if I wished, such as throttles. Just haven’t got to them yet, as a divorce and a move have me starting over with a new layout.

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