I started a new DCC Steam layout. two questions
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What is a good height to view and work on a layout?
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I am having trouble with larger steam 4-8-4/ 2-10-4, derailing when going though the Atlas turnouts,(noisy & jerky) any ideas?
Most of us prefer to stand, and when we have to reach into a layout, it can get dangerous for elbow-model contact when we have to reach more than about 28". How far can you reach into your layout and not have to drag over a stepping stool when you think better of it? Generally, depending on your own height, a layout is best viewed near eye level. That would put it near 65" for a lot of us. At that height, reaching without an elevation aid would be foolhardy. Accordingly, we compromise. I would say most layouts have mean operating surfaces between 36" and 46".
Your Atlas turnouts may have high frogs, poor gaps at the frogs, including at the guard rails, or they may simply be too sharp. If your long steamers splay the middle portions of the points rails, spreading them beyond gauge, then you will experience derailments. You should probably be looking at #6 turnouts, although a well-made #5 may allow your steamers to go through them. I use Peco code 83 #6’s and handlaid #8’s.
Crandell
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Buy an NMRA gauge.
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Read on how to use it.
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Gauge your turnouts.
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Gauge the wheels on your locos.
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If everything is in gauge and you still have derailments, then you will have to look at larger turnouts.
David B
Mine averages 40" high to the rail head.
Since the switch problem is unique to your longest locos my vote is for the switches being too sharp.
Use an NMRA gauge. Check ALL the wheels; check the points and the gauge through the whole turnout. Make sure coupler trip pins are not sticking below the tops of the rails. Make sure the points are closing all the way and no gap exists between the point and stock rail for the direction that is closed.
Long wheelbase locomotives don’t like small numbered turnouts. You should be using number 6’s at least, and not number 4’s.
Being lazy and cheap I took 8’ 2x4’s and cut them in half for legs. According to my calculations the legs are 48", add 1/2" plywood plus 2 layers of 3/4" foam and my layout top sits at 50".
Gives adequate working height underneath too.
This works for me.
Bob
Another thought on the turnouts.
When I was a new newbie I was having trouble at a turnout. After spending hours trying to fix the turnout I found that the leading truck was derailing just before entering the turnout.
You should be so lucky.
Bob
Adding to what David said on turnouts, make sure you don’t have older locos with very large flanges trying to run on code 83, for example. Also, make sure the turnout is in good, not too loose condition and that the points are tight up against the stock rails(preferably notched to provide a pocket for the points).
However it is possibly an Atlas snap turnout which is way too sharp for those steamers, especially a 2-10-4 which should have a number 6 minimum to be happy. Also, those locos will want 24" or more radius curves. I would try to make them 30" or bigger.
We run a 3 level layout and so have a variety of heights that provides different height viewers different vistas.
Richard
My 4-8-4 BARELY makes is through Custom-Line #4 turnouts, if I take it easy. A 2-10-4, unless it’s a small one, probably has an even longer rigid wheelbase. Not gonna happen. You need #6’s minimum for reliable operation (my previous layout was all #6’s, and I could run that same 4-8-4 at warp speed through crossovers). Snap-Switches, forget it.
–Randy
Top of foam is 48". I have all #6 Atlas turnouts. The benchwork spent 18 months having the track & cork professionally laid and wired for DCC. The min curve is 24". Diesel run fine but not my steamer. Do I file the new frogs deeper?
I think you may want to consider what Crandell suggested in his posting: make sure the frog is not raised above the surrounding rails. It just takes a minor height difference to cause derailments in larger steam locos…when working on a frog be very careful, work slowly and frequently test the problem locomotive to see if your work is making any progress.
Wayne
The best height for a layout is what’s comfortable for the way YOU build and operate. If you would prefer to sit rather than stand, you’d be operating a layout at 50 inches height like a submarine - periscope, sound and instruments. (My seated in a normal dining chair eye level is 43 inches.) OTOH, if you play center on your basketball team, a layout 36 inches above the floor will give you the viewpoint of the Goodyear Blimp…
Also, just how level is your model railroad. Total height change from lowest visible track (the portal of the Haruyama Tunnel below Harukawa) to highest visible track (the end-of-the-railroad colliery served by the Tomikawa Tani Tetsudo) on mine is about 22 inches. I had to keep the lowest level low enough to prevent the highest level from scraping the ceiling…
Chuck (Modeling mountainous Central Japan in September, 1964)
Sorry, I have to disagree with all of this stuff about raised frogs, rails out of gauge, etc.
It is the track work.
I was in denial for years about this.
I have a mix of Code 100 and Code 83 flex track and Atlas Custom Line turnouts on my HO scale layout.
For too long, I blamed the turnouts.
The fact of the matter is that the Atlas turnouts are fine. Perfect, no. But “good enough”.
The turnouts must sit on a stable surface. The connecting tracks must be level and perfectly aligned.
And, steamers are a particular culprit for derailments unless the pilot trucks are properly weighted.
So, don’t waste your time blaming the turnouts. Make your track work bullet proof and properly weight the pilot trucks. If your diesels don’t derail, it is not the turnouts.
Rich
Except for a couple of locations where I used Peco curved turnouts, ALL of mine are Atlas #6s. There is a design difference in the Atlas #6 Customline and their #6 Super switch; the diverging leg of the Super switch is longer.
My layout is slightly lower than yours (48"), but when I started building it, I was using 2x4s for legs, too. Since then, they’ve been replaced with “L” shaped legs made with 1x4s. In the bottom corner, I attached a short length of 2x2, that I drilled and inserted tee nuts with 1/4-20 carriage bolts. This allows me to make fine adjustments of the leg length. My layout is in the basement, er, train room and the floor slopes to the center of the room to where the drain is.
Clamped, glued and nailed. Predrill the pieces to keep them from splitting with nailing.
2x2s drilled for tee nuts.
Tap the tee nuts into place.
Tee nuts seated in leg.
1/4-20 carriage bolt installed. You’ll notice a 1/4" square just beneath the head. I use a 1/4" ignition wrench to mak
My layout height is 36 inches.
I feel that is took low for viewing and too low for working under the layout.
On my next layout, the height will be 42 inches, which I feel is ideal for viewing and working.
Rich
Those look like my legs, except I use a 1x3 and a 1x2, with a chunk of 2x2. Can;t get a straight 2x2 anywhere around here, but even a slightly twisted one is sright in short chunks like that. I originally started building my current layout at my old place which was all hardwaood floors, so instead of t-nuts and carriage bolts, I picked up a similar thing with a big felt pad ont eh bottom. The t-nut is plastic but it works just fine, and in the exact same manner. I already had a couple of packages of them so I kept using htem after I moved and continued in a carpeted room.
–Randy
Here is an excellent video explaining/describing how a frog actually works:
Wayne