Derailments Caused By Emergency Braking?

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

I have always understood that train brakes going into emergency can derail the train from the effect on slack run-in, run-out, pulling drawbars, stringlining curves, etc.

Does anyone know of a pileup that was officially attributed to an emergency application of the brakes?

I guess the only way to determine that had happened would be if the engineer made an emergency application, and then a derailment occurred.

It would be interesting to know how many times a day, in the U.S., freight train brakes are intentionally placed into emergency versus how many times a day they go into emergency without actuation by the engineer or other crewmember.

Are there statistical records of this?

2

Something like this happened right in front of me 25 years ago, a train was pulling out of Bloomington Yard on what was then ICG, the diesel house foreman, who was generally not respected (he reportedly had been reassigned from Paducah after killing someone there) saw something on a passing flatcar loaded with company equipment he didn’t like and ordered the engineer to stop, the engineer thought it was an emergency and stopped fast. All the switch ties on the frogs on the yard lead were bad because after the merger ICG didn’t want to do maintenance on the old GM&O, and so when the slack bunched several cars went on the ground. This was in the winter and it was dark by then so no one noticed. When the foreman was satisfied with the flatcar he let the train leave and several loaded hopper cars turned over, it tied up the yard for a week, they called in what they called “the Kline truck” from East St. Louis to pick up the cars but it took weeks to patch the yard lead back together.

3

And it would not be just an engineer dumping the air but also a passenger or trainman; or a broken air hose, an uncoupling, or any other damage to a brake line.

My Ride With Me Henry Group were in the last of eight cars of NJT/MNRR’s Port Jervis bound train 51 a week or so ago through Ramsey, NJ at speed when the engineer dumped the air and brought the train to a quick and smooth stop; the conductor got on the intercom and explained that an automobile had nosed out onto a grade crossing in front of us causing the engineer to so react.

4

I worked for the ICG at railroad HQ in Chicago from 1976 forward and this statement is just flat out false.

5

Does anyone know of a derailment caused by…?.

The railroads themselves know, or;

Why would rules require that after an emergency application caused stop, that the entire train be inspected on both sides to insure that loads haven’t shifted, couplings are intact and that all the wheels are on the rails?

Beside derailments caused by slack action, during run-ins and run-outs, a break-in-two could leave couplers, knuckles, even the end of a car between the rails for the remaining portion of the train to surmount and then, like a ski-jumper, you can picture it.

Emergency applications bring many factors into train handling.

The haz-mat cars when derailed could blow up, poison or incinerate the town you’re going thru.

A pile-up, 3 or 4 deep, could destroy a (fill in the blank)

People in the car, van, bus truck are going to be in a meat grinder (or not, depending on timiing which you, the engr, can do little to affect at a grade-crossing,

A trainee said that no matter what the risk to his crew, we had cabooses then, or other employes or to a metropolis or campground, he would big-hole (effect an emergency application stop) if there was any doubt that a vehicle would clear a crossing ahead of his train, no matter what because his religion said Thou Salt not Kill…

6

To quote Groucho Marx, what am I supposed to believe, you or my lying eyes? I spent every weekday in that yard from 1987-8, the track was worse than the old Rock Island the year it shut down, I saw rotten ties in mudholes under frogs, yard tracks with their switches spiked shut. A hopper car turned over while sitting still once. Or should I not trust the word of of the former yardmaster, the yard foreman (both of whom I can still name) or numerous maintenance of way employees, all of whom told me that inadequate maintenance had been performed on the line since 1972? When the line was sold to Venango Bros. in early 1988 they all shook their head because the main line needed ties so badly and the new guys wouldn’t have the cash to replace them, sure enough they were bankrupt by the end of the year.

7

I have no idea how good your eyes are, but your knowledge of the situation leaves a lot to be desired.

The ICG couldn’t maintain its track to proper standarrds. That wasn’t because no one “wanted” to do the maintenance, it was because there was no money to do the maintenance. All over the railroad, not just the old GM&O parts, there was deffered maintenance. I remember being in the lead unit of CM-1 and bottoming out on the springs at 25 MPH on the Bluford District. That was the “Main Line of Mid-America” and it was in very poor repair.

They tried to sell the railroad. The So

8

[quote user=“greyhounds”]

I have no idea how good your eyes are, but your knowledge of the situation leaves a lot to be desired.

The ICG couldn’t maintain its track to proper standarrds. That wasn’t because no one “wanted” to do the maintenance, it was because there was no money to do the maintenance. All over the railroad, not just the old GM&O parts, there was deffered maintenance. I remember being in the lead unit of CM-1 and bottoming out on the springs at 25 MPH on the Bluford District. That was the “Main Line of Mid-America” and it was in very poor repair.

Th

9

I am thinking of freight trains derailing and piling up at speed where maybe 25-50 cars are piled in heap. I can’t recall ever hearing of one of those types of wrecks that was said to have been caused by the engineer dumping the air, although, I suppose it must happen. It is just that I have never heard of it happening, so I wonder how often it happens.

I would think that that cause would be very easy to determine. All you need is for the wreck to follow an intentional emergency application. It does not seem very likely that the derailment could be unrelated to the brake application where the two events just happen to occur about the same time.

10

I know that the SP did not want the engineers to put the commuter trains on the San Francisco to San Jose line into emergency, especially the bi-level cars because of the possiblity of deraiing them. We hit two vehicles while I was in the cab. One just north of Santa Clara and the other in San Mateo. Both times we were doing 80 MPH. Both drivers did not survie After we hit the vehicles we went into full brake, Not emergency and stopped quickly. No member of the crew or any of the passengers were ever injured.

11

I can think of a couple in the Conrail era. One on the Buffalo line going downgrade on a curve involving multilevels. Another on the Port Road where a train was filled out with a block of coal on the hind end. There were more, for sure.

Anytime such a derailment would occur, it would be computer simulated in order to see if some improvement in train consist restrictions and/or operating practice could be made. The simulation programs were pretty accurate, but very tedious to use.

12

Don,

So you are saying that those two derailments were an immediate response to the engineer making an emgency application? Do you recall what the brake application was for?

13

I don’t recall. In fact, they may have been train initiated emergencies

14

I wonder how the crew would learn that a train-initiated emergency application caused a derailment. The only scenario I can think of would be if the crew found a broken air hose, broken trainline, or a break-in-two in one part of the train and a pileup in another part.

That would be the “smoking gun.”

15

Does it suffice to declare that an emergency brake application by itself will not cause a derailment; it’s what happens to the train before and after.

All, but one, or two, scenarios provide for desired emergency function.

air hose separation, broken brake pipe or knuckle, coupler failure, derailment, eng crew in fear of getting killed in a collision, trespasser uncoupling a stopped train----all desired emergency apps.

After any of the above there is no control, except for the obvious “OH SHI…” application, of the brakes and thus stopping or securing the cars when stopped. Gotta’ have the emergency app.

What caused any of the above caused the app, and then track profile, train make-up and train handling good or bad luck caused the derailment.

un-Desired emergencies…here are three:

After coupling to a train and the air’s been cut-in the pre-charged trainline, got to change ends. When in the cab at the other end of the engine consist, the brakes have been charged by the car’s brake valves emergency release function. If the engr’s brake valve is cut in before the equalizing reservoir pressure matches or exceeds the brake pipe pressure…bloooey.

Another…After doubling over a big cut to a joint, the (explitive deserved but deleted) train or yard crewman opens the brake pipe’s angle cock too quickley causing a brake pipe pressure reduction rapid enough to trip an emerg, app.

Most common real UDE was a car brake valve that mechanically hung-up during the (relatively slow) brake pipe pressure drop initiating a train brake app. and after a substantial pressure drop moved causing an emergency app. rate of brake pipe pressure reduction enough to trip emerg. actuation there and then transmit a train length emerg. app.

.Let’ not mention the broke-in-two trains stopped a few car length’s from a STOP signal…"broke in two 'cause of a UDE.

&nb

16

Would you call that a kicker or dynamiter?

17

I think that a good example may be the wreck of the New York Central’s Lake Shore Limited on Death Curve in Little Falls, New York, in 1940.

What I remember hearing is that the engineer was speeding into the curve, slammed on the brakes to slow the train, and it, in turn, caused the cars to bunch up and a few to "telescope"other cars. I don’t remember many details about the wreck, but that is pretty much what happened in a nutshell (a real small one).

I know that the procedures for slowing and stopping a train involve applying the brakes (not slamming them) and “bailing” the locomotives brakes so that the train drags the engines to a stop.

18

There was an Emergency Braking induced derailment at Ellicott City, MD yesterday. The Engineer of a CSX coal train initiated an Emergency Braking application when he saw trespassers on the tracks, 21 coal cars derailed, unfortunately the two trespassers were killed. Train crew was unhurt, but shaken up.

19

Thanks Beaulieu. That is exactly the kind of example I was looking for.

20

Given track/train dynamics, an emergency brake application should not cause a derailment. I would expect there to have been some other condition that the braking forces found and made worse which could lead to a derailment. Will be interesting to see what the NTSB comes up with, in a year or so.