BOSTON - NYC - WASHINGTON — MAKES MONEY… Needs no Subsidy.
only if you do not count capital expenditure
Correct. Capital expenditure is never counted.
ROAR
Amtrak reports operating margins, i.e. the operating results, for each identifiable line of its business, i.e. NEC, State Supported and Other Short Corridor Trains, and Long Distance Trains. In FY12 it showed an operating profit for the NEC, offset by operating losses for the Short… and Long Distance Trains.
The Consolidated Statement of Operations includes non-current items. The biggest are depreciation and interest expense. These items, together with the large operating losses incurred by the Long Distance Trains, wiped out the NEC operating profits. As a result, in FY12 Amtrak had an consolidated loss of more than $1.2 billion on total revenues of $2.9 billion.
Without access to Amtrak’s books, it is impossible to know how much of the depreciation and interest expense is allocated to the NEC. Based on what we know about Amtrak’s capital expenditures over the past 10 to 20 years, it probably is fair to say that the NEC drives a substantial amount of the capital (depreciation and interest) expense.
Amtrak received a substantial chunk of ARRA funds. Most of these were spent for capital items. In addition, it is purchasing new locomotives for the NEC and adding more than 100 new single level cars to its long distance fleet. Moreover, its wish list includes new trains to replace the aging Acela trains. These items will increase Amtrak’s depreciation expense and, unless the company can find a way to offset the higher depreciation with increased revenues (more riders willing to pay higher fares),its financial situation could deteriorate even further.
A competitive business must cover all of its costs in time, or it goes out of business. Of course, Amtrak is not a competitive business, although it is a government sponsored commercial enterprise.
Interesting, like Grand Central, it can have an office tower built on it. One thing that doesn’t seem to make sense is the severe lack of parking and the afterthought Turnpike access. Is there a plan to increase parking capacity if the office tower were ever built?
As for the Pennsylvania Railroad not wanting to have a real junction, there are a great many other projects undertaken by Amtrak, New Jersey Transit, SEPTA, etc. that connect those old competing railroads–like the Kearny Connection and the Waterfront Connection to name a few. I thought they might have had enough real estate here to build such a junction.
Not to belabor an earlier point but the lack of Amtrak access is a thorn in my side. I want a two-seat ride to points north west-of-Hudson, not three. Perhaps a master plan exists somewhere where a Metro-North rail line over the New Tappan Zee Bridge will solve this, but, oops, Amtrak doesn’t stop at Grand Central anymore.
Aegrotatio, And another thing. If Amtrak did as you suggest and build a Hudson River Crossing at the New Tappan Zee Bridge they could also have west bound (actually south bound) trains stop there and make that their Manhattan station. The trains would run a lot faster than they can in Manhattan, especially in the tunnels. I actually discussed this with a guy I met who works for Amtrak. His response was “Don’t let the door hit you in the a$$ on your way out.” We both laughed.
Sound like you are another Pat McGinnis who wanted intercity trans to emulate airliens with their airports.
Most corridor passengers are business travelers and are happy with intown terminals. But if you are talkiing aobu a high-speed Boston - Wshington nonstop, that is another mater.
If what I’ve read is correct, Secaucus Junction is intended to be similar to Manhattan Transfer, not a station for passengers starting or ending their trips but a connecting point for passengers who need to change trains to complete their commute. I doubt that Amtrak was ever considered as part of the equation since it isn’t supposed to be a suburban carrier and this is an NJT project.
Manhattan Transfer was originally built to allow Pennsylvania Railroad trains to change engines because steam engines were not allowed to enter New York. After it was built Hudson and Manhattan (now PATH) trains would stop there too and a change to a train entering lower Manhattan was possible. All PRR trains stopped at Manhattan Transfer as long as steam engines ran.
I have yet to use Seacuas…let alone pronounce it. Still use Hoboken to get the Port Jervis Train.
Correct, except that west of Journal Square they were technically PRR trains, not H&M. The Newark - Hudson Terminal line was a “Joint Service” line with identacle cars 50 owned by PRR and 50 owned by H&M, with the property line at the west end of the Journal Square yard. Crews ran through and belonged to the Brotherhoods. And the H&M was legally a railroad.
All trains to/from NY Penn, you mean. Steam trains from Jersey City didn’t need to stop.
But some, or even most, all non-rush-hour, Jersey City trains did stop to allow transfer to Penn Station trains and to the H&M-PRR joint-service trains. True, the transfer could also be made at the Exchange Place Jersey City PRR terminal, but some passengers may have wanted to go to Journal Square or via transfer there to Hoboaken or Pavionia. A few Bay Head Jc. Jersey Coast expresses probably did skip.
Anyone got a timetable showing a Jersey City PRR train that stopped at Manh Tfr?
You can check the Official Guide of the era or PRR timetables of the era.
And PRR did indeed look for company in Manhattan in that they talked with the DL&W I believe about sharing some costs but, I think it was the Davis era on the DL&W, and he and his board declined to spend the money.
Yes, Secaucus is like Manhattan Transfer of old by being built for the transfer to other trains. Being a true junction is also possible because you can change trains on the same platform from Morristown Line to Corridor and North Jersey Coast Line trains on the upper level while on the lower level you can change from the Main Line, the Bergen Cutt Off, Pascack Valley, and Sportsline trains. But neither the upper nor lower level can meet. It appears to be working well. There are elevators and escalators and stairs to and from all levels. It is not confusing if you follow the color assignments of lines and the train boards not just on the mezzanine but also in hallways and on platforms. Our Ridewithmehenry trips have used it to change trains from all the lines to the others in all directions.directions with no problems. Some waits allow some fun train watching on both levels. As a fan, it is fun. As a rider it is most convenient and can be time saving; or you can use the layover to grab breakfast or lunch.
I trhink Jersey Transit got the most improvement for its passengers possible for the money spent. It was a wise investment, and efficient use of the money available,
A few did, tho. The June 1930 timetable shows three weekday departures from Jersey City that stopped at Manh Tfr; the other 19 PRR departures and the three LV departures skipped it.
What about weekends?
Don’t forget Susquehanna Transfer. Except, instead of to ferries or electric trains, in later years the transfer was to the bus, which was faster than both.
When there wasn’t a traffic jam.