What would the history of dieselization in America have been like if the Electro Motive Corporation had never entered the business?Other companies had been producing diesel switchers for some time,but EMC produced the first road diesel,the Burlington’s Pioneer Zephyr,then the EA and E1.
Well there is GE, but EMD did create locos like the sd40-2 and f40 and all those good locos. hmmm /it would be a crazy train world with out them, but im sure someone else woulda stepped in
Without EMD, I imagine we would probably have lots of Alco,Baldwin and Fairbanks Morse locos running around.
Alco? FM? Baldwin?
These guys made decent locomotives, just not up to EMD’s stds.
It was the economics of the the new technology that drove dieselization, not EMD per se.
Honestly, I would love to see ALCos and Baldwins riding the rails today. Just think of what they might look like…That’s some cool stuff there.[:D]
And FMs! That would be awesome! They would be a sight, especially if they stuck to the styling of their TrainMasters and C-Liners and Erie-Builts.[8D]
Did EMD build the first roadswitcher?
I could have swore I remembered reading something to the effect that ALCO built the first roadswitcher in the RS-1. EMD came along with the roadswitcher/Geep idea begrudgingly because it did not want to detract sales from its F-units. I am sure this will sound trite to those in the know, but EMD actually tried to build the Geep in an ugly manner to divert more sales to the F-units.
Aside from that qualification, to answer your question (Mark, if you read this, forgive me, I know how you hate these impossible-to-justify a-historical hypotheticals):
I think if there were no EMD there would be no GE. I think ALCO makes it without EMD around and GE does not get the bright idea to change from supplying ALCO to building its own locomotives. Presumably, a Baldwin, Lima, or Fairbanks manages to stick around as the second builder to get in under the ALCO umbrella.
However, as I am sure Mark would say, this is all impossible to prove as the changing of one historical event would remove the historical guideposts I am using to predict how history would have been different.
Interesting to think about though . . . .
Gabe
P.S. Without EMD, I think steam may have made it another 5-10 years.
Gabe:
Great to see you…hope things are going well with the family and work.
ed
Thanks Ed, and dito.
Things are reasonably well. Although, I wish I had more time to do things like this.
Gabe
ALCO did make the first road switcher. The RI approached ALCO and they modified there switcher design. The first units were requestioned by the Army.
EMD did have the first road freight unit, the FT. I think also they were helped to stay in the lead by the production restrictions of WWII. By the time restrictions were ended, EMD was the standard to compare to.
Steam may well have lasted longer since most of the others were primarily steam locomotive builders.
Jeff
Well without EMD things would be VERY different, I think
I think Baldwin would not be around today, F-M, maybe, ALCo, probably, but someone may have filled EMD’s big shoes, and I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be GE.
Matthew
It is really difficult to say what would have happened if EMC hadn’t been purchased by GM, who wanted a wider market for the diesels built by Winton who they also purchased.
It was the really extensive work on reliability carried out by GM that made the freight locomotives possible, and without the FT, the process would have been much slower. It is fairly clear that Alco were pushed by GM/EMD competition to produce main line units like the DL109.
Realistically, steam would probably lasted ten or more years longer as the development of diesels would have been slower. Look at what happened in the Soviet Union, when conversion to diesel only started in the 1960s, but even they were influenced by GM in the USA, even though they didn’t ever buy any EMD units.
M636C
The corporate culture at GM must have been to be the dominant supplier for all modes of transportation. They were #1 in cars, trucks, buses & locos. Could EMC have been bought by Ford or Chrysler? how about Cat or others a leaders in the small diesel market?
The LaGrange location would be ideal for delivery to both east & western roads.
Standarzation would not have happened so easy. Remember EMD said either take it or leave it and knew they had the industry by the gonads. remember until EMD/EMC was around any locomoive was designed for that specfic RR there was no standard parts on anything everything was one off.
As long as we’re speculating, it would have been interesting if EMC had fallen into the hands of Lima-Hamilton, making it a worthy competitor to Alco and Baldwin again.
Would we have had a lot more smoky four-stroke diesels if EMD hadn’t been around?
Harley-Davidson would have stepped in . . .
It would have given an entire new meaning to the term “Hog”.[:)]
Old Timer
LAWLS!!!
According to the article in the special 9/01 Alco issue of Trains, Alco was pushing steam for mainline freight, and diesels for switching and passenger trains. Besides EMD’s policy for standardization, the reliability was also much better and that forced the other builders to improve their products or perish. Without that competition, dieselization would have taken longer since many railroads had fairly new steam locos and the cost/benefit of the diesel wouldn’t have been as attractive.
But how much of EMD’s success was the result of government investment during the war? If that investment had not gone to EMD, it would have gone to someone else able to ramp up production quickly.
I’m sure that minus EMD, someone would have made the effort to increase reliability, but the standardization issue might have suffered, as the culture was pretty much individual railroads had individual locomotives. The railroads would have also pushed a certain level of standardization due to the MU capability of diesels. Railroads would probably also have leaned toward manufacturers with reliable equipment.
One thing not considered in other comments was the possibility of railroads constructing their own locomotives, as several did with their steam locomotives. Would have led to some interesting creations, witness some of the equipment produced by RR shops that re-engined diesel locomotives (like the “Dewitt Geeps”).
By reliability, I was thinking of the Alco model 244 fiasco. It was pushed into production after the war without enough testing. Had all early diesels been that unreliable, acceptance by the railroads would have been slower, but not inevitable.