After retiring a few years ago, I’m getting back into the hobby after a 15+ year absence. The new HO layout is a freestanding 10’ 8" x 5’ 2". I have about half of the track down. (The easy half.) Turnouts will be manual ground throws with the exception of two crossovers. For them I have Walthers switch machines with built-in decoders. I have a Digitrax Evolution Express DCC system (DCS210+, DT602D, UR93). Walthers recommends against powering the switch machines with the track bus, and using a “standard booster output” instead. I don’t see anything like that on the DCS210+.
I’m new to DCC. The old layout was dual cab DC. How do I power and control the switch machines with my DCC system?
I know this is not an answer to your question, but I’ll tell you what I think, and it’s probably not exactly a popular opinion.
I’m fairly new to the hobby. I have a DCC layout. I would not power or control the switch machines with DCC. For me (and my limited brain) running and controlling the trains with DCC was complicated enough, without adding in trying to control the switch positions.
Instead, I powered the switch machines with a separate power system. The Walthers machines take very little power, and I was able to run wires for the switches to a homemade control panel very easily.
I do the same thing, driving my switch machines (Tortoises) with DC power packs. But, something different seems to be going on here. The OP says he has Walthers switch machines with built-in decoders and that Walthers recommends against powering the switch machines with the track bus, using a “standard booster output” instead.
Thanks for the replies. Since all my regular turnouts are manual, I didn’t want a control panel just for the two crossovers. I also opened a ticket this afternoon with Digitrax support. Their reply was that Walthers position “didn’t make sense, and that since I only had two crossovers, I should power them from the track.”
The idea is to use a separate bus from the track bus, driven by its own booster. With this method, if you have a short commands can still be sent to the switch machine, instead of the track bus which will be cycling on and off.
If the short occurs at the switch, you can still throw the switch to correct the issue. Because it still has power and the ability to receive commands.
I have bee waiting on Walter’s to get there power supply cord that connects to the power distribution block for their switch machines myself even though you are only powering crossover switches I’d hook to track buss temporarily eventually you will have issues.i also have dcs52 and need to find out what loconet device I could use.learning new lessons can be expensive
It’s a general statement in the Walther’s instructions, for the reason given above - the turnouts can still be thrown if there is a short in the track bus.
Short update and another question. Before I started digging into my foam and plywood subroadbed to install the switch machines, I thought it would be a good idea to test one out on the bench since I haven’t wired up the Digitrax on the layout yet.
I have the DCS210+ track bus connected to a Walthers power distribution block which is in turn connected to a Walthers switch machine. The throttle is connected to the DCS210+ with a Loconet cable.
The switch machine comes with a jumper installed that puts it in “DCC learning mode” and also keeps the throw rod centered. I’ve got my Digitrax manual and Walthers Switch Machine Reference Guide (such as they are) open to the appropriate pages. Power on. Press the switch button. Select a switch number. Hit the A button to “throw” the switch. Switch machine responds by momentarily moving to the thrown position and returning to center. This is as described in the Walthers reference guide. The switch machine should now be assigned this number.
Removed the jumper per the Reference Guide to “return to normal operation.” Now when I send a command from the throttle to close or throw the switch, nothing happens at the switch machine.
I’m following along with this thread as I think I’ll be using walthers switch machines with DCC as well. Don, I hope you don’t mind me using you as a trailblazer, but youre a lot further ahead than me, it seems!
I’m not sure how thick your plywood and foam is, but mine was too thick for the wire that came with the Walthers switch motors. I bought some piano wire the same thickness, and cut off a longer piece of wire. (Don’t use your good wire cutters – the piano wire is hard!) I then bent the wire to fit into the machine.
FYI - when someone makes a claim about a mfr’s recommendation and it seems unusual, it’s a good idea to check the actual manufacturer’s instructions.
Walthers #942-101 “Switch Machine Advance Control Manual” states, “Use of the Walthers Control System 12 Volt DC supply (942-110) and Power Distribution Block (942-111) is recommended.”
Further, “Alternately you may power the switch machine from a standard DCC booster output…”
And finally, under a special “- NOTE -” section highlighted in gray, “While it may be tempting to wire the switch machine to nearby track when using DCC power, it is not recommended to do so.” They go on to explain that if it’s a loco running against a closed turnout, you can’t move the loco to remove the short if you’ve used the track bus. They close by stating “Switch machines and other DCC powered accessories should use a dedicated booster or circuit breaker …”
IN NO WAY did Walthers ever recommend using a DCC booster as the preferred method. They default to a standard DC power supply, which every single modeler should probably include as an accessory power supply for their layout, whether they’re building a DCC layout or not.
EDIT: These things all used to be handled by the 16VAC Accessory terminals on every single HO DC Transformer/Throttle, but 12VDC is what’s appropriate today with servos, LEDs, and other HO accessories.
First, who made the seemingly “unusual” claim about a manufacturer’s recommendation? It’s not in any of my posts. Please cite that “someone”. Likewise it was never stated by me or anyone else that using DCC booster power was the “preferred” method. Again, please cite a reference.**
I understand that it is not recommended to power the switch machines with track power. This was discussed earlier in the thread. The risk is that I wouldn’t be able to control the switch machines in the event of a short. Nowhere does the Walthers reference guide say that they won’t work with track power. As I said in my last post, it responded when in “DCC Learning Mode”, but did not respond when returned to “normal operation”. “Not recommended” is different than “won’t function.”
Getting back to the beginning, the layout I’m building is just a double track oval with spurs off both the inside and outside tracks. Towards one end there are crossovers on each side, primarily to allow for a runaround moved during operation. My rationale for controlling the crossovers via DCC was that I’d be able to control both crossovers regardless of which side of the layout table I was standing on, and which spurs I was working. My last post was asking for help getting the switch machines to respond to DCC commands after assigning an address. If this proves infeasible I’ll have to fall back to push button fascia controls and do a little more walking.
Again, thanks for the reply. You made some good points. Some had already been brought up, others were against a strawman that doesn’t exist.
It’s not a strawman. You clouded the issue yourself with the opening post in stating, “Walthers recommends against powering the switch machines with the track bus, and using a ““standard booster output”” instead.”
There is no mention of the Walthers preferred power source: a separate12VDC power supply.
Further, you described opening a ticket with Digitrax support stating that Walthers position didn’t make sense and thath you “should power them from the track.”
Again, no mention of Walthers preferred method of using a 12VDC power supply. Having a number of years of experience with Digitrax and their recommendations, it’s been apparent that Digitrax almost universally recommends separate DC power supplies for almost every component they sell. It’s hard to believe they would say that Walthers recommendations made no sense if you had mentioned Walthers preferred recommendation of a 12VDC power supply.
Admittedly, I quickly scanned the rest of the thread, but my impression was that everyone was stuck on whether you should use the DCC bus vs. buying a separate DCC Booster.
Richhotrain even stated after a mention of a separate power system by York1, “I do the same thing, … with DC power packs. But, something different seems to be going in here.”
There is no strawman - only genuine confusion about a seeming refusal to follow Walthers preferred recommendation: a separate 12VDC power supply. The discussion about DCC Bus vs Booster to power the machines is almost a non-sequitur.