Can some one tell me the best measurements for white elmers glue and water? For scenery. and should i add a few drops of dish soap. I searched the internet for the answer, But i get a lot of different measurements. And some say to spray isopropyl alcohol on it before the cement? I didnt think model railroading would give me such a headache lol[:D]
There is no magic formula – anywhere from 50/50 to 70 parts water / 30 parts glue, has worked okay for me.
What’s the difference between diluted white glue and scenic cement? In the latest Virginian Project Layout video, David Popp starts out spreading white glue, sprinkling on various layers of ground foam, and then finishes with the scenic cement.
Don’t worry, the headaches will ease with time!
There really is no “standard” when it comes to diluting white glue. It basically comes down to personal preference (I’m sure others will chime in). It could also depend on where your layout is located in reference to atmospheric/environmental conditions, the humidity level could effect the application and drying time. Some people live in areas with extremely hard water and have to devise their own solutions through laboratory experiments.
It doesn’t take a lot of glue to hold scenery (ground foam) and ballast in place, here’s what I do: I dilute white glue with water. I prefer more water than glue and I do not use a measuring device. Some of my mixtures are 60/40 and some are 70/30 (I usually just eyeball it).
Before applying the glue mixture, I spray (some people use an eye dropper or pipette) the area with 70% isopropyl alcohol. This breaks down the surface tension of the water when it’s applied to soak into the material. Using a solution of water with a few drops of dishsoap will also break down the surface tension to allow the glue mixture to soak in, but I prefer isopropyl alcohol. After a few seconds of allowing the alcohol to saturate the area, drop the glue solution into the area and you will see it soak in.
$$$$ and time. Scenic cement costs more than elmer’s glue and using a sprayer is faster than dribbling/dropping it on. Plus, they might be trying to promote one of their sponsor’s/vendors product (marketing thing).
Exactly – they use products from their major advertisers. There are many generic brands of “Elmer’s white glue” but that name has become the most common reference. Scenic Cement by Woodland Scenics seems to be nothing more than white glue.
I have been doing this on my layout for 8 years now, and over time my personal formula has changed as a rsult of experimentation.
What I find best is a 4:1 water to glue ratio with a few drops of liquid dish washing detergent added in for better dispersion. Prior to putting down this glue mix with a small spoon, I spray 70% rubbing alcohol over the ballast or ground cover for better absorption.
Rich
Wilson, first off, I’d like to welcome you to the forum. You will find some great ideas from some very innovative people. Now, as to your white glue question, most of the posts have pretty much answered your mixture ratio.
What I’d like to add, is that I use those condiment bottles that “mom and pop” diners use. Before mixing my diluted glue (I use whatever’s cheapest at the time, and I always buy it by the gallon), I drop a large fishing weight into the bottle. Then add the glue, about 1/2" inch in the bottom, then top it off with “wet water” (water with dish detergent added). Over time, the glue will settle to the bottom with the water sitting on top of it. The fishing weight acts just like the ball in a rattle can of spray paint. A few shakes and it helps remix the water and glue.
Ditto. I use yellow glue, but apart from that, a 4/1 ratio in favour of the water, plus a couple of drops of liquid dish detergent, place two small clean pebbles in the bottle, and shake it up. Those pebbles help the next time you shake it, too…and the time after that. [;)]
I use this weak glue soup on everything. I wanted to say what the Frank’s Sauce lady says, but it wouldn’t fly here…you get the idea. I wet the ballast, then follow up with this liquid which penetrates nicely into my beach sand. With the application of fine ground foam grasses, pre-wet, spray liberally with the glue mixture, and then use a tin pie plate to sprinkle the grass from the lip over the glue. Let that dry, and then return a few hours later for an overspray. Yer done!
Don’t forget to cover all your nearby tracks, particularly turnouts, when you spray!
Crandell
It also depends on how you like to model…
I like holding stuff down from underneath as I can control the color…especially in dirt. Some modelers put stuff down and then spritz glue medium over and “Wet” it down. Works really good for a railroad that will have a lot of hands on switching and operators.
There is no formula but with gluing down from the bottom there needs to be more glue and spritzing needs to be pretty thin to come out of the squirt bottle.
I use alcohol, NOT soap, to wet the mix. Not a lot but it breaks the surface tension and makes it creep everywhere, especially when doing ballast.
One more thing…Woodland Scenic ballast is NOT. It is some sort of walnut shells or something that likes to float on the glue and not go down easily. Find a company that is really rock, there are lots of them out there.
see ya
Bob
…and another country heard from. [(-D]
The key to getting good adhesion of ballast, foam, or any other stuff is in the pre-wetting, and it doesn’t matter if you use alcohol or water with a few drops of dish detergent, just be sure to wet the scenic material right through before applying the glue mixture - what’s not wet won’t be glued in place.
I’d also advise against spraying the glue mixture. If you apply it with a plastic squeeze bottle, as suggested by Medina1128, you’ll get better penetration much more quickly. Properly wetted, I’ve never seen Woodland Scenics ballast float, and I have areas on my layout where it’s an inch deep.
Wayne
I pretty much agree but, in my experience, as a pre-wetting agent, alchohol prepares the ballast and ground cover better than water with a few drops of dish detergent .
I have never seen Woodland Scenics ballast float either, if it is pre-wetted. Walnut shells, poppy seeds, or whatever it is, who cares, as long as it is pre-wetted before applying the glue mix.
Rich
I use 50/50 with a few drops of detergent. For scenery I apply 100% white glue to the foam after outlining the footprint of any structures. Then comes the ground cover, clump foliage etc. Dribble 70% alcohol over the area and finally apply the 50/50 diluted white glue over everything. Works like a charm.
I not only prewet with alcohol, but I dilute the white glue with it instead of water as well.
I buy Scenic Express Matte Medium Concentrate. <$10 and makes a gallon of scenic cement when diluted. MY LHS carries the stuff since I mentioned it to them.