Heh, too young. I was a little kid in 1969-1970. I remember 1970 onwards and a few 1969 travels, so only the last year or two and by that time most Milwaukee diners were regulated to storage at that point. Rode mostly the UP gray and yellow trains between Chicago and Milwaukee and I believe they had some kind of snack bar service but no full service diner. You know their internal Coach colors were awful and kind of sexist. Powder blue for the Mens john, Pink for the Ladies room and then those awful pastel colors throughout the rest of the car. The birch wood accents with the art deco chrome were nice though around the windows, luggage racks, and end of car. Mostly rode with my Dad on trips to the Merchandise Mart to buy furniture for his offices or for Christmas shopping trips around Thanksgiving.
I remember the end of car Milwaukee vestibule doors you had to crank on the door lever and push really hard as there was no hydraulic assist, you were pushing the full weight of the steel vestibule door…it would spring shut though behind you. Same with the restroom doors…the conductor would lock the restroom as we approached the station between Milwaukee-Chicago then (only one stop, they either did not stop at Sturtevant or Glenview back then…can’t remember but that is also why their timing was faster between Chicago and Milwaukee) unlock after, very laborious but one time he forgot to check if a passenger was inside and locked the passenger in and he started to pound on the door.
Remember seeing my siblings off on the Milwaukee to Oshkosh C&NW Bi-Level…not sure what the name of the train was but it was fairly long about 6-7 bi-levels in 1969 or 1970. Took only 2 hours to get from Downtown Milwaukee to Downtown station in Oshkosh then
I don’t remember what I ate but I do recall an incident in 1967 on The Broad Way that said a lot about PRR service on their flagship train. I had just been hired by NYC and treated myself (on NYC’s dime [A]) to a trip from New York to Pittsburgh and dinner on The Broad Way.
A complimentary large, red apple (with the bottom sliced off so it wouldn’t roll) and a full pack (of 20) Benson & Hedges cigarettes were served on a small plate after dinner. To appreciate this you need to remember that Benson & Hedges was a premium brand at the time and that the airlines were then serving your meal on your lap with a complimentary pack of 4 Marlboros or some other common brand.
When this apple and pack of cigarettes was placed in front of a gentleman across the aisle from me, he said to the waiter, “Pardon me, but I don’t smoke cigarettes. Would you have a cigar?”. Like a magician making something appear out of thin air (OK, his breast pocket), the waiter produced a premium Dutch Master cigar and, of course, lit it for the gentleman.
Agree that the PRR Broadway was a classy operation, despite most of the glamor people choosing the 20th Century. I preferred the single-rooms in a Creek-class sleepers to regular roomettes, with the cost only a bit more. The Broadway had them, and the 20th Century did not. This was in my salad Bolt Beranek and Newman days . But when Pres. of KLepper Marshall King and wanting to make every penny count, the Slumbercoach on the 20th Century was a more tolerable downgrade that a coach seat on the General. But all the diners on these trains were great.
Thank you for this story, which is doubly impressive for having taken place so near the end. By this late hour the Pennsy knew as well as anybody that it was game over, but they elected to stay with their standards. That is oldfashioned character!
I rode Milwaukee Road’s Morning Hiawatha in April of 1971 a couple of weeks before Amtrak. The railroad operated a buffeteria coach whic by now had food served on sturdy paper plates that was cooked at a grill. You ordered your food, paid the steward, then proceeded to an empty table. The hot food was served by one of the waiters. I rememeber having ham and scrambled eggs and it was very good. The train ride from Minneapolis to Chicago was a very somber experience especially in the buffeteria. The crew faceda very uncertain future after May 1. The Afternoon Hiawatha had a full diner until the end.
In August, 1965 I took NYC #16, the EB Ohio State Limited, from Columbus to New York. As a college kid scraping by, I traveled in coach but I wasn’t going to miss the chance for a good dining car breakfast, my first (although I had taken many shorter day trips by train in Ohio).
I entered the diner as we were gliding along the beautiful Hudson River between Albany and NYC. The steward, cheerily singing “Hello Dolly!”, greeted and seated me. I soon learned about the railroad way of printing one’s order on a pad. Soon enough, on a table set with fresh linen and a gleaming silver service, I had set before me my bacon and scrambled eggs, with orange juice and piping hot coffee. What a treat, as I looked out on the magnificent Hudson rolling by!
After visiting my friend, I returned home to Columbus on PRR’s Spirit of St. Louis. Knowing now what I’d been missing, I treated myself to a delicious dining car dinner somewhere near Harrisburg, although I’ve forgotton the details of that - no offense to the Pennsy.
In the late 1970’s, I traveled from Chicago to Crestline, OH on Amtrak and was seated for dinner across from a young couple who told me that entertainer Pearl Bailey was dining a few tables back. I’d heard that Pearl Bailey never liked flying and preferred rail travel. Young and starstruck, I rudely approached her table, where she and her children were awaiting their food. To my surprise, Ms. Bailey warmly invited me to sit down and join her in the meal. I explained that I’d already ordered at another table, but we had a warm, if brief, conversation. It ended this way: Ms. Bailey: “I’m on my way to Atlanta to sing the Star Spangled Banner at the game where Hank Aaron is gonna get his record breaking home run!” [Which he did.] Me: “Oh, Ms. Bailey, I hope none of those streakers runs through the park while you’re singing.” Ms. Bailey: “Oh, honey, I may not be that old yet, but I am too old for that!”
Many memories-B&O, IC, Pennsy, NYC, C of G, ACL, Wabash, N&W, GTW, CN in eastern Canada- but we were not in first class trains because of Dad’s pass. But the food was always good and it was fun to ride along and watch the scenery while eating. UP had a diner on City of St. Louis that also had a counter, not just the traditional tables. Riding the original CZ with a tour group and the Zephyrettes coming around to take our dining reservation.
Riding with 2 friends on UP City of Los Angeles all Pullman train and sitting in a dome diner. We had taken the SP Daylight down the coast and they had an automat with sandwiches in the cafe car.
Foods I do remember-French Toast, Bread Pudding, seafood and beef. And Dad writing down what we wanted and the maitre d’ taking it from him and reading it to the waiter. We were told that dated from the time when the waiters could not read or write and it was still being done in 50’s and 60’s when we were riding.
Two friends and I rode the CP Canadian, classy scenery and classy food. Came back on the CN Super-Continental but because we took the Daynighter coach with reclining seats-a stepup from regular coach-but not as pricey as Pullman- we were not allowed to eat in the regular diner, had to go to the snack car. I was not happy and told them so. First time a line had ever been drawn about using the diner. All the US railroads let people from both sections in the car and so did CP-although we did have Pullman sleepers. But there was no separate diner for coach.
highgreen: Your anecdote about meeting Pearl Bailey in the PRR diner confirms everything I ever thought about her. And she asked you to sit at her table? How cool was that?
And I know just what you mean about those well-laid tables on the NYC. Simply elegant, right to the end and beyond (for a short while) on Amtrak.
This thread makes me think I’m glad to be as old as I am; I’ve experienced a lot of pleasure in dining cars over the decades.
Around the beginning of Amtrak (I don’t remember whether it was before or after), I was in Washington when the train came in from Chicago. A “train” of baggage carts came down the platform, and riding up on top of a pile of luggage was Pearlie May herself, smiling and waving to one and all. I think it was better than seeing the Queen of England, or any President, in a parade.
In the 1960s, especially latter half, impossible to best the Super Chief, and the continuing pride and care to this legend by the AT&SF. Indeed, when still a Santa Fe operation in 1972 under Amtrak, on arrival day into Chicago, I woke-up late and sought out lunch just before Joliet. Can you believe the steward re-lit the fires and served up a terrific burger/fries? And cocktails were still prepared in the Pleasure Dome and served in glassware.
However, by 1967, meals on the DZ and CZ were not spectacular, and never that good on the Twin Cities Zephyrs. To avoid the Q on my twice per summer trips to Minneapolis visiting my brother in college/med school between 1962-1966, I booked the WB North Coast Limited to enjoy a terrific roast beef dinner–and that potato the size of the table. Returning to Chicago, I would book the EB Empire Buider to enjoy a great breakfast and hamburger lunch in the diner, although the Ranch Car was always inviting. WB Empire Builder to Minnepaolis also served up a terrific roast beef dinner.
Even by 1963, The General served barely palatable meals in its twin-unit diner–chopped steak dinner dry; breakfast greasy. What made-up for that was lunch and dinner in 1961 aboard the EB Twin Cities 400 from Minneapolis to Evanston–fresh fish both meals. Can never forget a chicken salad sandwich lunch in the diner of the bi-level Fambeau 400 from Evanston to Milwaukee, also in 1961.
However, what still stands out in my mind was dinner and breakfast aboard the EB Royal Gorge between Salt Lake City-Colorado Springs in 1957. Not only a 10 minute stop in the Gorge to disembark right on the ballast (no attorneys then?), but rumor was that the Rocky Mountian brook trout was purchased en route. Also, a trip aboard the Western Star in 1959 from Chicago-Glacier Park. Every meal in the GN diner terrific. And the lounge/grill made the best malts in the afternoon.
So, will Amtrak ever learn to benchmark to all that’s left in North A
I beg to differ with your experience on the CZ. I took my family on the CZ in 1968 and the experience was excellent. Our Steward was a gentleman who if pictured in the the book “PORTRAIT OF A SILVER LADY” I think his name was something like Lundgren. All the food was good, the service was spot on as far as I could see with cloth napkins, etc. No deminishment of quality that I saw. Even the SP’s Cascade dining car was good even though SP was trying to kill it. They had stopped checked interstate baggage service even though they had intrastate baggage service and all our bags had to carried in our car. I don’t think I lack in ability to detect bad service or food. Not only did we not have an AUTOMAT car, we had a first rate diner. Crew & Food.
I do agree that the VIA diners are excellent. Though the food is well prepared, they are not as high cost of some entre’s as most restaurants. I don’t recall steaks on the menu. But the braised beef was to die for. On my trip on the Canadian, leaving Toronto, the train had three locomotives, & 28 cars: baggage, 2 coaches, skyline for coach, then three sleepers, skyline, diner, six sleepers, skyline, diner, six sleepers, skyline, diner, three sleepers, and a park car. Longest passenger train I ever saw.
In the 1960s, especially latter half, impossible to best the Super Chief, and the continuing pride and care to this legend by the AT&SF. Indeed, when still a Santa Fe operation in 1972 under Amtrak, on arrival day into Chicago, I woke-up late and sought out lunch just before Joliet. Can you believe the steward re-lit the fires and served up a terrific burger/fries? And cocktails were still prepared in the Pleasure Dome and served in glassware.
However, by 1967, meals on the DZ and CZ were not spectacular, and never that good on the Twin Cities Zephyrs. To avoid the Q on my twice per summer trips to Minneapolis visiting my brother in college/med school between 1962-1966, I booked the WB North Coast Limited to enjoy a terrific roast beef dinner–and that potato the size of the table. Returning to Chicago, I would book the EB Empire Buider to enjoy a great breakfast and hamburger lunch in the diner, although the Ranch Car was always inviting. WB Empire Builder to Minnepaolis also served up a terrific roast beef dinner.
Even by 1963, The General served barely palatable meals in its twin-unit diner–chopped steak dinner dry; breakfast greasy. What made-up for that was lunch and dinner in 1961 aboard the EB Twin Cities 400 from Minneapolis to Evanston–fresh fish both meals. Can never forget a chicken salad sandwich lunch in the diner of the bi-level Fambeau 400 from Evanston to Milwaukee, also in 1961.
However, what still stands out in my mind was dinner and breakfast aboard the EB Royal Gorge between Salt Lake City-Colorado Springs in 1957. Not only a 10 minute stop in the Gorge to disembark right on the ballast (no attorneys then?), but rumor was that the Rocky Mountian brook trout was purchased en route. You mean that one of cooks did not throw a line out while running alongside the
Quite possible, as it was a slow crawl along the Arkansas…in those days, diners were stocked quite differently than now.
Indeed, when I was on a back-to-back run thru the western national parks on the ex-AOE in 2005, I learned how the diner crew typically provisioned the train enroute with fresh offerings. When the consist was serviced in Helena, they purchased quanitites of fresh fish for that night’s dinner on our way to Glacier.
How can I argue with an “Electroliner…?” If I had only been old enough to cocktail in its lounge, instead of just apple pie and milk!
All I remember of the EB CZ from Denver-Chicago in April, 1967, was nothing special–food, service, attitude, etc. Especially when compared to the GN, NP, and especially, the AT&SF.
I have regularly traveled VIA’s Canadian and Ocean. Steaks are indeed available in the F class diner on #1 & #2, as well as rack of lamb, prime rib roast beef, duck, etc. Even without a regular diner and using the Renaissance concept, the Ocean served up good meals throughout the day. After a 32-car consist in the summer of 1999, I try to keep to winter, spring, and fall on #1 & #2.
As a part of a family vacation I recall riding ‘The Gulf Wind’ from New Orleans to Jacksonville. The L&N originated the train at New Orleans and handed it off to the SAL at Chattahoochee, FL. As I recall the L&N diner on the train had the name of ‘Square Key Tavern’. While I don’t really remember the quality of the meal, I do remember the quality of the ride - the car should have been more aptly named ‘Square Wheels Tavern’ - roughest riding car I have ever been on. The car was switched out of the train at Flomaton, AL, where it would lay over to catch the Gulf Wind back to New Orleans in the morning for the breakfast crowd.
Only 1 full diner at the rear, perhaps separated by 2 sleepers from Park car. It appeared Skyline dome lounges were used as auxiliary diners and positioned approx. every 2-3 sleepers. When we left Toronto, we had to hike 16 cars back to the Park car. I fixed that problem with a great train director who fully appreciated how I wanted to be in the full diner and close to the Park car!
The times that I rode the Canadian with twenty-some odd cars, there were two full diners, and each one served six sleepers–three on each side, with a dome lounge immediately in front of the diner.
I always though the Amtrak “tradition” of having very elaborate dining car meals were held over from the desperate attempts of the bankrupt railroad to lure passengers by offering elaborate dining car meals. It didn’t seem necessary for Amtrak to continue that tradition because the meals were a marketing tactic by the now-defunct passenger railroads that is no longer needed.
I think most folks would be happy with an automat car at the very least, or at best a bistro-style Northeast Regional and Acela snack car, and Amtrak would save hundreds of millions.