I’m sure all of us diesel operators have thought about operating cooling fans and LL P2k did give it a valiant try with the FAs and now there’s some new technology out there that might make it more feasable.
What comes to mind are the tiny motors that are in the little micro RC cars, I’m don’t know the specs on them yet, but I would think they could be resistored to run off a lighting function on a decoder, maybe even use the Rule 17 funtion to give the fan 2 speeds. Something else could be rigged for DC operation.
If I recall correctly, this feature was been offered in commercial models perhaps a decade ago. I seem to remember this as not being particularly well recieved by hobbyists, since the rotation really wasn’t very apparent beneath the screens. Only a model or two came out with this feature before it disappeared from the scene.
Then why bother with “see-thru” fan grills just to see a stationary fan blade? Or tinny sound in locos, or flashing ditch lites? Those could also certainly be described as gimicks too. As a model builder and detailer, my query was really about how to do it, not whether to do it
As far as visibillity goes, the commercial model (ALCo FA) had fan blades that were the same color as the body and were hard to see even when stationary, so just painting the blades a contrasting color like grey would make quite a difference and today’s fan grills are more delicate especially if you’re replacing the factory ones with Cannon & Co’s thru which the fan blades are very visible.
There’s no right or wrong answer: it’s personal preferences. For what they’re worth, here are mine.
See-through-grills make the model appear more realistic. You can see through them!
Operating fans would add a lot of cost, take room from the interior needed for other purposes, add another maintenance worry, perhaps add unwanted noise, and wouldn’t be visible unless standing close overhead. Not worth it to me.
I’m not enamored with loco sound either. It IS tinny and expensive, although horn/whistle/bell effects add a desirable aspect to operations. Why doesn’t someone come out with a belt-mounted, pack-of-cards-sized unit with horn/whistle/bell sounds which can be adjusted for particular locos? If done right, I’d readily shell out $150 each to equip my operators. I’ve suggested it before, but it fell on deaf ears.
Lights are highly visible and add a great deal of realism, thus worthwhile.
I eschew smoke, exploding box cars, actual running water, and other “negative details” which, despite the effort or expense to create, detract from realism.
I have one of the original Life-Like FAs with the operating fan. Sounds good in print, but not in real life. I tried painting the fans different colors, even leaving off the grille to see if they could be appreciated - nothing worked. When they were operating, they went so fast that you couldn’t tell they were moving. And the A unit had the fan, while th B unit didn’t, and that didn’t help either.
When fans are really whirring they almost “disappear” like the propeller in a cartoon airplane.
In that sense detailed fan blades that do not move are NOT realistic unless the engine is being portrayed as shut down.
But sometimes you see the fans turning very slowly – perhaps just reacting to the heat rising. That could be an effective touch. The perfect use for miniature “solar” energy!
Spinning fan blades have been tried and have been deamed (by many, including me) a gimik. LifeLike used a rubber band off of the flywheel that drove a fan. It increased the amperage of the motor and most people opened up the unit and removed the fan drive.
From what I am hearing from you, you need to be in another scale. It seems to me that HO cannot give you what you are demanding from this hobby. Why not try O or G scale where you can lots of room to install motors for fans, have lots-o-smoke smoke and have less tinny sound? Heck, you can even have doors that open and windows that slide open!
For me, I am happy with my sound and I love my lighting features…but I dont understand why you deam lighting features as gimiks? They are very realistic.
Why do people like see through grills only to see stationary fan blades? I dunno…perhaps, because we can? Personally, I dont follow my locos around staring into the fan blade housings…I prefer to run my trains listening to my “Tinny sound” and looking at my lighting features.
Gimik or not, the problem is perception. Working valve gear on a steam loco is necessary because you see it moveing on the prototype. How many of us watch a diesel prototype loco from above? We’re not used to seeing the fans turn, so really don’t pay much attention to a model fan. Just my [2c]
First we must understand the locomotive fans isn’t continually running but,like our car comes on automatically when the motor hits a certain temperature and that would mean a operating model fan would need to automatically start and stop in order to emulate the fans operation…
Feasible on a model? Of course.However and IMHO it would drive the cost of a locomotive up sufficiently.
I tend to agree it would be a costly gimmick that has no real value…
I like the idea of operating fans and don’t see it as a gimmick at all. It would be kind of cool to be at a train show, have your F unit pull its passenger train into the station and turn on the fans as it sits there idling. Have it run through the decoder so you can turn it off and on and it may even keep the decoder cool, lol. I’m in to this hobby because I really enjoy the fine detail that can be done and thats what I try to accomplish in my projects. The more detail I can add the better and if people find it gimmicky then I just got two words for them.
I would agree also that there are no “gimmicks” when it comes to these little trains. What there are is little details which some don’t deem important enough to occupy space on “their” loco. Heck, people shell out money for little wiper blades, and it is only time for someone to make them move. You also have detailed interiors which are not that appearant until one scrutinizes the loco. So as for having a working cooling fan… I would probably be game, as well as operating wipers, but I will stop at the operational toilet. The fan I personally would slow down enough to be noticable in spinning, with some sort of weathering stain on the blades to draw the eye to the movement. There is a limited amount of room for a drive system, so something flat, but still track powered would be cool. I don’t wear one and don’t really watch it, but has anyone tore apart a wrist watch, battery powered with a dial face? The second hand shaft might be able to be connected to the fan (geared up). It’s flat, can be hooked up to track power, and cheap.
I’m not talking about manufacturers doing this, but more as a modeler’s challenge. As I said in my first post, we now have two things we didn’t really have before, the micro motors, (1/4"x1/2"), from the little RC cars so the fan(s) could run independant of the drive motor and independant power and on/off control, ie; 12v from one of the lighting functions, (and maybe even 2 speed control by using the Rule 17 CVs, bright/dim?), or maybe someone can design a timer/speed circuit. The top speed of the motor could be controlled by a resistor, (the FA’s did spin way toooo fast and the grills weren’t fine enough for good visibillity, but D.A.'s etched screens could be used for ALCos).
The mechanics are doable for an ALCo with a large single fan, just have to work out the gearing or pulley system, EMDs would definitely be much more difficult with all those multiple fans and less effect visibly because of their smaller size.
Rotating fan blades would be a valuable feature on FM Train Masters, as they were plainly visible when viewed from ground level. I remember watching them on the CNJ in the sixties, and they were almost always turning at different speeds. Fans are also visible through the front screens of SW 1500 switchers when the shutters are open.
Nice topic. I think installing rotating fans would look great. But like said above they would have to turn slow to be noticed. And that would be no “gimmick”, also STAY with HO (why would you want to change). I am curious as how to install them.
BN SD45’s coming down the high line to the Keddie wye. Me scrambled up the hillside looking down at the radiator fans lazily turning–no big need for power coming downhill!
Also consider this. If you have little fans you also have little grille’s clogged with dirt and dust. Imagine cleaning them out and the very out of scale look it would bring. If it was that high in demand I’m sure the manufacturers would supply it, but as said before, not many are staring at the radiators when the trains are moving.
Every time I see models of Trainmasters and FAs I think “What a drag those fans just sit there, not moving.” EMDs and GEs it doesn’t matter because you can’t see them as well.
Plus, why doesn’t someone make little people that walk around?
Everything on the layout is standing still except for the trains. It’s like something out of “Twilight Zone.”
Guys,The reason I call operating fans a gimmick is because if they run continually then its no more then a pricey gimmick since real locomotive fans doesn’t continually run.I mention that years ago when LL had their FAs with operating fans…
I forgot to mention these fans operate at various speeds as well.
Just thinking out loud here. IF the fans spin freely enough, I wonder if you could put a small fan blade on the drive motor shaft and just use air flow through the shell to spin the fans?? That would be cheaper than adding a small motor and wiring to the unit. Might work on a unit like a BB that’s nice and open inside.
