When did railroads have the technical ability to move their dispatchers out of state (Fort Worth-BNSF, Omaha -UP) and still be able to control traffic over vast areas out of state? ( Is it for their own protection? from delayed traincrews)?
How big an area ( district,subdivision, division) does a dispatcher control.? I can’t imagine how someone in Ft Worth could preside over all the traffic out of ie. LA. to Barstow by themselves. let alone the entire mainline.
Last , is it the traincrews (roadswitcher) responsibility to contact the dispatcher once they are out of a towers/junction’s control.? How do they get permission to move out on the mainline? and if it is a dispatcher- how does he/she keep everyone else moving and take care of those folks?
I’m sure that MWH and a few others know more than most of us, but I’ll start anyway. From what I’ve read, a division is about the smallest area one dispatcher will be assigned. Dispatchers have a trainsheet for keeping track of everything. Some lines such as light-traffic branches don’t need much attention while main lines always need to be looked after. It’s a very demanding job.
Please do not blame the dispatcher for delays. It’s in a dispatcher’s professional interest as well as self-interest to move all trains off his or her territory as rapidly as possible – no rational person intentionally increases their workload. Delays are almost 100% due to too much traffic for too little plant, exacerbated by unworkable operational schemes imposed from above.
Railways had the technical ability to centralize all dispatching for an entire system to one location by 1970 with the maturation of microwave communications but few U.S. railways did so at once because of the vexing organizational complications it entailed. Dispatching is not independent in execution of the rest of the railway and centralization also had to include customer service, engineering, marketing, sales, accounting, mechanical, and so forth – they all had to move in step.
There’s no upper limit to the geographic span one dispatcher controls, only the amount of traffic. Dispatcher territories can be as little as one mile in length and upwards of 3000 miles in length, and I have seen both within the last year. The upper limit is determined also by method of operation(s) in use, number of main tracks, variability in train types, and time of day. Some Class Is tend to load up their dispatchers with too much territory, suboptimizing the railway but making the costs for the dispatching center look good, while others go almost too far the other way.
Responsibility for contacting the dispatcher varies with the method of operation and the rules of the railway. In general terms both dispatcher and train crew are responsible for making all communication necessary to keep traffic fluid and keep trains moving. No train can enter a main track without authority, and unless it’s yard limits where authority to occupy is granted by rule (and some other less common methods of operation) that authority is granted by the dispatcher or control operator. Believe me, if the train is sitting in a yard rea
I could not agree more. Very soon after a train has departed it departure yard trackage the yardmaster has another cut of cars being shoved into that track. They need that track to build another train. The dispatchers and yardmasters work very closely to get trains into and out of the yard.
S. Hadid did a good job in summing up his understanding of dispatching. Here’s one from my point of view to answer GKeller’s question. I’m a train dispatcher for CSX and work out of Indianapolis preciding over former Conrai territory with several dozen other dispatchers. Our office controls the Great Lakes Division of CSX which is split into sub divisions. Subdivisons vary in size and can be hundreds of miles or as few as 10 miles. Mr. Hadid did a good job describing how dispatching territories are divided any why one dispatcher may only control a few miles, but they also run many trains in a shift whereas the dispatcher with 1,000 miles of track only has a handful of trains.
As far as keeping all trains moving on your territory a good dispatcher keeps their head on a swivel scanning their railroad constantly for any signs of trouble. A good dispatcher, when they have time, will alert crews to conditions ahead and where meets with other trains will occur. Dispatchers have radio, telephone, block lines (usually linked to towers and yardmasters), and the signal system to communicate with all the people they need to make a railroad run efficiently. And of course during daylight shifts you run into working with maintenance of way forces and you have to find time for them to get out on the track to make repairs and routine inspections. Some dispatchers and members of management opinions vary on M&W and when they should get track time. I’m a little more generous and realize that speed restrictions don’t get lifted by themselves. I’d prefer to have my main line at the highest track speed possible. As long as my “HOT” trains keep moving I’m usually willing to stop mixed freights for a half-hour to allow for track work. Now there are times when the railroad is a mess and most of the trains are short on time, etc and M&W is the furthest thing from my mind.
Dispatchers need to be able to multi-task and keep calm. The railroad is governed by Murphy’s Law, so things are going to go wrong no
Probably not: Although many Indians (India Indians) are most competent in English, [;)] and although many would be quite at home in a major railroad scene (India has some pretty complex rail technology also)[8D], the fundamental problem with using Indian dispatchers is that their English has a peculiar accent to it [:p] often foreign to the American ear [alien]. My roommate for many years was Indian [bow], and often I had to have him say things twice before I could understand them [banghead]. The problem was not with him – he had a master’s degree – but with my tin ear [%-)]. But, unfortunately, tin ears taking directions where any accident is likely to be fatal openly entertains severe liability [:0], and this no American railroad wants [xx(].
About 40 years ago, my college roommate and I would end an evening of train watching with a visit to the dispatcher in the town where we went to school. This guy dispatched a secondary main line that passed his location and a busy separate branch. The kicker was that their timetable directions were the same but their geographical directions were opposite; i.e., westbound on the main was due west but westbound on the branch was more southeast. On top of that, the main was automatic block and the branch was timetable and train order. We never did understand how this dispatcher kept it all straight and talked to us at the same time.
I have ever since held dispatchers in awe; even later when I worked for a railroad and theoretically “ranked” them. [bow]
GK. Dispatching is the rough equivalent of patting your head, rubbing your stomach, while tap dancing over to the microwave where you are fixing your dinner and then to the coffepot, while dealing with problems on two or three trains.[:p][:p][:p]
I had found the information I am cutting in here from another thread. Which I pass along to you and anybody else interested
:“Latta Laments-- Tales of the CTH&SE” by Mike Dettmers
Latta Laments is a series of stories by Mike Dettmers who is a night trick dispatcher on the Soo Line’s Latta Sub in nort Central Indiana, and relates his trials and tribulations as he does his job… Now the Latta sub has been handed over to the Indiana Railroad, by the SOO LINE to operate, and Mike Dettmers has been gone for some time, but the storys are funny and interesting and cover many dispatch issues
I think it is quite interesting and funny and informative…I hope you will like it…
Sam
Latta Laments is a classic. I found them several months ago and read most of them. Mike had to deal with quite a bit … IHB, UP, and CSX to the north on the trackage rights and CSX to Louisville.
Anyone who enjoys the dispatching aspect of railroading should find his Laments and read them.
Nate…it is great to hear from you again. You sound much different, it is very obvious you have grown into your job. I am sure you are doing well with it. Are you still dispatching the Indy - St. Louis line? Have things cleaned up around Terre Haute or are the Katrina related trains still turning at TH/
I have probably said it a dozen times, but here goes again. I enjoy listening to the interaction between dispatcher and train crews/MOW crews as much if not more than watching trains. The NS dispatchers in particular seem to keep their crews informed of “what’s next”. The art of communication must be a great attribute to be a dispatcher.
Okay… anyone out there want to help explain from the dispatcher’s perspective why NS can’t seem to run Amtrak’s #29 & #30 OT west of Pittsburgh?
Or perhaps why we refer to the “Late Sure Limited” instead of the “Lake Shore Limited”?
Or perhaps why we refer to the “StarLate” instead of the “Coast Starlight”?
It’s not as though the dispatchers don’t know these trains are coming – so where’s the rub? Management imposing operational plans? Too many trains for too little track? I figure quite a number of us would appreciate the dispatcher’s perspective on these things. Thanks!
The simple answer to why Amtrak is late would be capacity and flexibility. Or lack there of…Amtrak runs at 79mph. Slow freight runs at 40mph. Where does the Amtrak train overtake the slow freight? Hot UPS intermodal train coming the other way. Maintenance windows, emergencies, etc. Has anybody every been on the LSL? I was on it about four years ago and I felt like a running back trying to weave through defenders going for a touchdown… Cross 2-to-1 at this location, run track 1 east from here to there overtaking one freight, three way meet at this location crossing back 1-to-2 restricted with more traffic ahead.
what difference does it make if a telephone connection is 2 blocks or 2000 miles distant?
Mr. Hadid had the key with the widespread use of microwave communications by railroads. Southern Pacific, Illinois Central, L&N, Southern widely used microwave.
When AT&T was split up by the government, allowing data devices to be connected to the telephone system, a rapid development of such data handling devices occurred.
This allowed the CTC control systems of the time to be consolidated. The CTC coding equipment could then be handled as simple data circuits and transmitted over any voice grade telephone circuit-- railroad owned or telephone company owned.
On the railroads, carrier equipment developed by GRS, US&S, Harmon, Lenkurt was limited to the distance it would work reliably over open line wires. When the Carterphone lawsuit forced ma Bell companies to allow equipment other than theirs to be connected to the phone lines, it became profitable for new companies to develope better and faster means of pulse code( data ) communications.
The exploding world of computers also added speed to dispatcher consolidation. Once computers and programming broke IBM’s tight grip, the major signal companies developed computer systems and/or the programming at a more reasonable cost. these computers took over much of the mundane dispatcher paperwork (in the 70’s).
As computer memory, data storage, and programming grew, the computer took over a large part of what is now automatic dispatching, meet planning, auto-routing, hump yard control.
once you have all the necessary information, CTC control codes, voice communication (including VHF radio) flowing over telephone circuits reliably—what difference does the length of the circuit make??
Mr. Hadid well covered the human side of dispatching.
This has been one of the most interesting threads I’ve read. I’m just a model railroader (Texas Western MRC in Ft. Worth), but tend to be the resident dispatcher, and I’ve found I enjoy it. I’ve found this enjoyable and informative. Thanks!
The Katrina trains are finally gone, but a large number of grain trains took their place. Also, a new connection was built down at Rose Lake yard in East St. Louis to bring traffic from the UP out of Cone yard and cross over to the CSX just east of Willows Tower. I guess we’ll start seeing some coal trains coming east from there. There will also be a work gang on the St. Louis line May through August, which is badly needed, but will no doubt affect traffic patterns.
I cannot think of two disciplines on the railway whose interests are more diametrically opposed than the yardmaster and the dispatcher, an inherent outcome of the division of labor between main line and yard that has been encouraged by centralization of dispatching. Divisionalization tends to make both crafts more accountable to each other and maybe even know each other as something other than a disembodied voice on the other end of the telephone. Centralization is a very nice thing to have for fleet management, crew management, and long-distance trains, but it has not yet come to grips with its destruction of the teamwork that a decent division superintendent could will into existence and enforce.
A couple of questions for Nate & CSX Dispatcher regarding the comments by S. Hadid on the previous post regarding lack of teamwork due to centralization. I believe that the Indy dispatching office would be considered to be a divisional dispatching office, right? Anyway, in general, what type of relationship do you have with the yardmasters you deal with on any given day? Also, do you ever get the chance to meet the people who you talk to on the radio every day, or as S. Hadid referenced it, are they a disembodied voice on the other end of the phone?