Can some of the tallent out there explain the basic’s of dispatching to a non-railroader? From the input of this Forum and article’s I have read. In order to have a safe and smooth running railroad you need to have a safe and smooth running dispatch.
1.How many dispatcher’s do railroads have and were are they located? Do they locate them on busy sections of track?
2.How do dispatcher’s know when to put a train into a siding? Do they have a math formula that they use as to were two trains will meet? (Remember the classic Algebra question “If one train leaves New York at 40 MPH and another leaves Chicago at 30 MPH were will they meet.”)
3.How do they know which train is more important? Do the marketing peaple tell them which train gets the go signal?
4.If a train is built at a small switching town of “Miles of Nowhere”, Texas how do the dispatchers know its ready to leave And what it’s destination is? How do they know what track to route it on?
I have more questions but do not want to overload the system. If it would be easier to answer them one at a time please do so.
TIM A
If your scenario is between divisions, probably not because of crew qualifications and collective bargaining jurisdictions. Sometimes you can, if there is an ID (Interdivisional crew) If it’s between districts on the same division, probably so. Crews can operate on different districts on the same division. I’m speaking from NS point of view. May be different on other roads. Sometimes, in trackage rights joint facilities, crews from other railroads can operate on NS. They are required to pass the same rules examinations as NS crews. Likewise if NS crews operate on another road. Is that what you mean? gdc
OK Tim…Here we go:
On NS, dispatching centers are located in Division headquarters cities. Two divisions were just recently combined, so there may be two for that division. One was pretty antiquated. Dispatchers divide the division into districts approximately 100+ miles or so. This may also vary, but that is the general rule. Each district is identified by name, i.e. Blue Ridge District, Virginia Division, Shenandoah District, etc. Most of the dispatch centers are computer aided so that trains appear on a map located on a big board as lights that progress with them movement. Individual signals and their aspects, including those govering turnouts. At the more modern centers, this a big semi-circular, darkened room with 5, 6, 7 or so dispatchers. They are in touch with each train on their district.
Dispatchers plan their meets based on siding length, crossover intervals, train length and other traffic. The computer aided dispatching system has the capacity to help plan meets, if possible to be non-stop. That’s the optimum.
Train priority is determined by it’s symbol. In other words, an Amtrak train would have priority over a through freight which would have priority over a local. Depending on the type of train, some symbols have prority over others. Roadrailers will be given rights over other trains. Again, none of this set in concrete. Conditions may be present that dictate a deviation.
If a train is scheduled to go from Miles From Nowhere, Texas to Sludge Pump, Oklahoma, the symbol will tell the dispatcher just that. Then he and the computer and eveything else plan the moves. It really works and I have nothing but good things to say about the dispatchers in today’s centers. These folks are highly trained (no pun intended)and are required to be qualified on their district. They are required to take a rules test every year.
The jobs are high stress and it takes a special level of dedication to do them correctly. There’s a whole lot of similarity between them an
What if one dispatcher has all his sidings occupied and 10 trains on the way to his division (Blue Ridge). Another division (Virgina) is sitting empty but, one of his tracks goes to the city that 5 of those incoming trains are bound for. Can Blue Ridge dispatch tell Virgina dispatch he needs to take those trains and if the route is longer will they charge the customers for the addintional miles?
TIM A
Yes, you have hit the nail right on the head! (Have you ever thought about becoming a teacher?) You mentioned that they can track the progress of a train on a map. What feeds them that info? Are there radio transmitters on the trains that feeds GPS info to the dispatch centers? Are there sencors on the tracks that flag the dispatch on the speed and condition of a train?
TIM A
Tim, I would like to give this one a shot with my limited knowledge. I know that some of the BNSF units have GPS (was told this by a RFE), but I don’t think that this used by the DSs yet. I was taught that the DS can’t see exactly where you are if you are between control points. That means if you are knocking down intermediate signals, they can’t see that you just knocked down the intermediate at MP 120.5. They can see when you knock down an absolute though. The absolute signals are controlled by an operator and the intermediates are controlled by track conditions (train fouling that block, weed weasels shunting the track). Intermediates have number plates on their masts and or grade markers). As far as speed sensors, all that I know of are Trackside warning detectors. Some will give speed along with a defect message, and temperature (for temp.related speed restrictions) along with milepost number. Not all are alike though. To my knowledge these detectors do not flag the DS as to speed etc. They do however transmit over the radio their message. I’m not sure if the DS can hear these transmissions. They are rather weak. Sometimes you can barely pick up the message from a train that is several detectors ahead or behind. Like I say, that is what I was taught on my road. Hope that I didn’t mislead you…
Hi Tim, gdc gave you a really good answer. Iam going to give you a example, to put it in perspective, I hope. Each train has it own symbol, say the Memphis to the Port Terminal daily train, its symbol is M2PT, (from Memphis, train #2 to Port Terminal). Its a mixed freight. Rails are used to carry a electirc current from signal to signal and to the dispatchers “Big board” often nothing more than a CRT monitor, it has a track schematic on it, showing control points, or absolute signals. These have a track cricuit of their own, which will change an indicater lamp or cursor on the dispatcher board when activated, so he/she knows when a train has entered, or passed the signal. Running through one of these displaying a absolute stop indication is a firing offense, automatic. You cant hide having done so, the dispatcher will see it and know. All that said, lets say the M2PT is heading into houston, but right on his heels, say three blocks back is the QVBT, a hot intermodel for barbors cut terminal. The dispatcher know the M2PT is going to the PTRA north yard, and because he has worked that dispatching jobs for years, he can look at his board, see that the M2PT is a block away from a siding that will hold his train easily. He also knows, from his beginning shift breifing that the QVBT is a higher priority train, it should be expidited if at all possible. So he hits a few keys, and the signal ahead of M2PT changes its indication and aspect to diverging route, and the switch to the siding lines towards the siding. The engineer on M2PT will see the signal, know that he is being lined into a siding, and slow to turnout speed before entering the siding. When M2PT’s last car clears the control circut at the north end of the siding, the dispatcher can see that on his board, knows that M2PT is in the clear in the siding, and type a new command into the system, which will line the switch back for the main, and give the QVBT a green signal at the siding. When QVBTS last car clears the circut at the south end of the siding, or the
That sir was a very good explaination, and yes you have cleared up a lot of questions. Thank you for the help.
TIM A
Was listening to the radio heard a conversation between CN road foremen and a train. They had a boxcar with a small air leak, the road foremen told them to nurse it back to it’s home rails. Just then the CN dispatcher got on the radio and told the train crew to park that boxcar in the nearest siding. Do the dispatchers out rank everyone on the railroad?
TIM A
In pratice, yes, sorta of. If the train crew was told by their trainmaster, or boss to nurse the car home, then that means the train will have to move slow, in case the leaks gets big enought to set the brakes in emergency. To prevent a traffic jam on his part of the road, the dispatcher had the crew set it out, and get back on the road to keep every train behind them from losing time. In essence, the dispatcher owns their section of the road, and has a duty to keep traffic flowing. He/she can overide just about anyone on just about anything except a safety issue, they cant order you to break a rule, but they sure can order you into a siding, and keep you there while they run a lot of trains past you. POing a dispatcher is not a good thing to do. If the dispatcher had a hot train behind the leaker, imagine him trying to explain to the division superentindent why that intermodel stacker missed the boat because of a leaking air hose on a general frieght? If there had been no trians behind that one, or no trains scheduled to meet the leaker somewhere, then he would most likley not bothered, but meets and passings are timed affairs, and when you dont get to where your suppost to be, when your suppost to, then it can snowball all the way across a division really quickly, and create quite a mess.
In essence, its their railroad, you do what they tell you to.
Ed
tim to maybe simplify things alittle more ill start witht he last thing first. When will the dispatcher know its ready to leave the yard master will order the train. when the crew is called a copy of the crew call sheet is sent by printer to the originating office to the next crew change point and to the dispatcher. dispatcher on our part of the road will order crews when the trains get to certain area and depending on meets and possible work to be done. in abs where we run dispatcher only has a idea where you are by listening to the signals we call or the detectors that are going off. other wise they do what is called “os” in short asking where we are.
as far as are train going onto another division the 2 dispatcher will talk about when we will meeet and where. As far as going onto another railroad all we need to do is contact that road disp by radio and if he can he will run us. we dont need anything special like taking test to run on the other roads. on my lic it says all roads i am lic to run on.
Now the tricky one who goes first and where will we meet. what gdc says is true to a point on my road, it may not be totally the train as much as who is on it. if the crew has a reputation of running the wheels off it they will move maybe a little further and maybe only hold up a train with more priority very little. the amount of time a crew has left to work will mean weather a hot itermodal train with 9 hrs sets while a opposing train with 2hrs left to work and is 1 hrs from home goes on in.
and on are railroad its contractual that they will not run a train around another train. in other words i might be on a over tonage under powered mixed freight and have a short stack train behind me and that is where he will stay. couse its first in first out. if you get run around that cost me money.
Why would dispatch switch a crew from one train to another? Is that legal? Both crews were sitting in a siding at different locations why would dispatch call a cab and switch crews? I thought once you were assigned a train you stayed with it?
TIM A
Sorry about the late responce, was away on bussiness.
Tim, crews can be switched from one train to another, but they would get another day’s pay for whatever service they were changed to. As an example, a work train is sitting in a siding and is not expected to move because of maintenance of way delay such as a critical track machine broken down. The work train crew has been on duty four hours. Now consider a through freight is approaching with only one hour left before the hours of service catches them and they are about two hours from their terminal. It is permissable to stop that train and restart the work train crew in order to relieve the through train crew. It was always my experience that this was not something of which to make a habit. The work train would have to stay put until another crew could be found for it. If the work train crew had not been there, the through freight would have to stop at the end of 12 hours on duty to be relieved. This would have meant transporting a new crew to that location, usually by contract taxi. I think we’ve been this route before. On NS, there is a localized paycode that allows a crew that is relieved on the line of road because of the hours of service to remain at an overtime rate until the relieving crew reaches the yard limits of the terminal. Not a bad deal! They could be home sleeping, watching tv or whatever at OT rates. Fortunatley this paycode only applies to one district and only to a few employees. Ahhhh, T&E payroll, now there’s a system to test your sanity! Regards and have a safe day, gdc
Does dispatch keep track of the train crews hours for pay purpose’s? Do dispatchers fill out the crews time cards? Is there a display on the dispatchers panel that lets them know when a crew would be at there limit? Do dispatchers keep a log of all the trains that they move through there area? Is the dispatch responcible for calling out crews and providing them transportation? Who is more powerful, dispatch or Maintance of Way peaple?
TIM A
there will be others that will disagree but maintance of way has more power. reason if they cant get time to go inspect track they will shut the line down. they will call the cheif and tell them the main is out of service. it dont take long for them to get their track time.
crews do their own time cards as it is the law. the dispatcher makes reports and keeps track of the trains he delays. so he can cover his own self.
Tim,
With all due respect, I really need to be a little guarded here. Payroll data is a personal issue and to reveal too much about it’s workings would approach my ethical boundaries. I don’t think I’d want may salary to be dissected in a public forum. Also, it is a matter of contract provision between the crafts and management. In the limited information previously listed, the effort was to emphasize the complexity of all payroll systems.
Now, all that said, let me try to answer some of your questions. Crew calling and transport is a function of a separate department called, believe it or not, Crew Call. This is a centralized office facility that keeps up with crews system wide. Generally, they arrange for crew taxis, deadhead trips, etc. and provide information for taxi invoice verification. Using a number code, each trip is recorded and that code must show correctly on the taxi invoice before it is approved for payment.
Who has track time is not a matter of a power struggle. Maintenance of Way and Transportation each have a job to do and it’s the dispatchers who coordinate this sharing. If the division engineer needs track time to replace crossties, he will get it as much as the schedule can accomodate. In high traffic areas, track time may be very limited, in which case, schedules can be rearranged or the job will take much longer than if he had no traffic with which to contend. I’m recalling one location where we were replacing a drawbridge amid a long trestle. The draw was to be completely replaced. The span was constructed in Japan, shipped to the U.S., assembled at a location about a mile from the bridge. The site was prepared and the new span floated in. The old span was removed and the new one installed and open within 12 hours, all in daylight hours. As there was no detour route available, trains were scheduled around construction and given the opposite 12-hour window for that day. This is an example of how the division engineer, the Mechanical Department and the Tra
Hi group My name is Rodney i work for the BNSF as a conductor on some of my trips I have had on the road there were some dispatchers learning the route even some of the older dispatchers ride the routes as they which are in Fort Worth and Kansas City do not realy know the layout of the route the older dispatchers told us the crew that dispatching is more art than science being they are talking with the terminal some of them keep the train crew in the dark not letting them know if they are going to get held until the last moment while others tell us so we have a head up as to what is going on we have some dispatchers that realy get unwound when AMTRAK is in the mix and the track is single track CTC them they come on and say everyone in the siding and we most often set for 2 or more hours as for the math question throw it out they do not concern themselves with that it all revolves around the priority of the train. Rodney
What if tracks owned by two different railroads cross each other. One track is dispatched by NS and the other dispatched by CSX. Which dispatcher has the right of way when two trains meet at the same time? Who controls the signals at the crossing do both dispatchers have control?
That is defined by an agreement between the two roads. It is usually based on which railroad was there first, i.e. the road at that location first controls the crossing. Since most railroad were built many years ago the establishment of who controls an interlocker can go back decades. As for day to day operation, train classes tend to dictate right-of-way to the controlling road. In other words, if the controlling road were NS and an Amtrak train approached on CSXT, the Amtrak train would have priority over any NS train of lesser class. When two trains of the same class approach, it’s up to the dispatcher to make the best move depending on conditions.
Regards, and have a safe day. gdc
At a great many such crossings at grade, the junior railroad must pay for the maintenance of an “Automatic Interlocker”. The senior road then maintains it. Commonly, neither dispatcher has any control as the automatic interlocker grants the route to the first train to activate an approach track circuit - sort of first come fisrt serve. Sometimes electric controls are arranged so that a dispatcher on the senior road can override this - but usually not.
At such crossings where the dispatcher is not in control, there is usually an override mechanism of some sort available to the train crews just in case an approach gets stuck or a train is switching on the approach but not intending to cross. When activated the original route is cancelled, and after a several minute safety time out - a new route is automatically set up for the other railroad. hope that helps
RmC