I love watching steam locos run with all the dynamic action of the wheels, side rods and valve gear
Just lots of action going on !
Especially with an articulated !
Diesels seem to look like an electric slug
just sliming their way down the tracks with nothing to watch but the entire unit.
That said The diesels seem to run smoother with fewer stalls from electrical pickup {at least on my layout }
than the steam locos
I have some very smooth running steamers. My P2K 0-6-0 runs really smooth and very slow. On speed step 1 it would take about 5 minutes to go 1 tie width. My BLI Blueline M1b has about 60 hours of run time with absolutely no problems. My old Bowser steamers all die-cast will pull the house down and run very well to boot.
Your problem may be you need more electrical pickups on your steamer and a good tune up.
Some do, some don’t. Generally, though, I would instinctively give the nod to diesels as a group because the rods and valve gear introduce ‘complications’ to movement in either direction. The rods can swipe each other, bind, get lint and dog hairs trapped in the pins, and the drivers in longer wheelbases can get suspended on wavy track that most diesel models won’t mind so much.
Steam locos run just as well as deisels, provided they are built properly and lubricated. There is nothing better than seeing a smooth running steamer snaking it’s way down the track smoothly. For the mechanicly disinclined, diesels require minimal adjustments so appear to the uneducated to be "smoother’ than steamers. But the prototypes got tired of adjusting steamers and went to diesels for the same reasons modelers did, diesels are easier to run, but not as interesting. So yes, we can put this topic to rest, there is no difference in the smoothness of steam or diesels.
My Proto Heritage Steam loco’s run just as smooth as all my Atlas, Kato and Proto diesels. One thing I got to say though is steam loco’s seem to be more prone to dirty track and dirty wheels then diesels.
Model - steam and diesel (and electric - I run catenary motors) can all run equally smoothly - but steamers require more, and more frequent, maintenance. All of those moving parts have to be kept lubricated and adjusted, or smoothness disappears.
Prototype - thanks to a phenomenon known as Dynamic Augment, steam locos were very hard on the track - and themselves. (I have read comments to the effect that a passing N&W Y could be measured on the Richter scale.) Diesels (and electrics) usually only had rotating parts - much easier on the track structure. Before the 1950s, rail weight was determined mainly by the type and size of locomotives used. Today the ruling factor is the weight of oversize goods vans.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with coal-, oil- and juice-burning locomotives)
I personally feel that one of the hobby’s biggest misconceptions. It’s not that diesels run better it’s just simply that they have a lot looser teleconferences then steam locomotive. If you place all your drive wheels closer together and make them all smaller they tend to be more forgiving then larger size drivers and more spread out if you will.
I think the misconception has gotten it’s legs by the lower end cheaper steam locomotives that just simply do not run as wel as the better quality units.
I have three ProtoH2K Y3 mallets that run flawlessly, two BLI 4-8-4’s, three Hornby Big Boys & one Allegheny and a couple of MTH Erie Tri-Plex locomotives that all run fine. I will say though that older Rivarossi locomotion do in part to their smaller wheel flanges ran very poorly.
All that being said if your track work is done correctly and you run good to excellent quality steam locomotives there is no reason why you should have any problem.
I just got off the phone with one of the senior members of the club and he said exactly what I was trying to convey. “The reason why people think diesels run better then steam loco’s is nothing more then an excuse for poor track work”
I think, like the prototype, steamers take a lot more ‘tinkering’ in some cases to run as smooth as a diesel. Of course, I’ve only got one F3 A-B unit on my MR, the rest is steam. And as a guy whose loco roster is about 95% brass, I end up doing a LOT of ‘tinkering’ with my models. But it doesn’t distract me from the joy of watching them run on the layout.
Some of my steamers have been fool-proof right out of the box and run with only minimal maintenance (lubing, wheel-cleaning, etc.) while a couple always seem to be ‘in the shop’ after a few runs for adjustments. Just the nature of the beast, I guess.
I’ve cured the ‘stalling’ problem by adding additional pickups to most of my brass locos (more difficult to do on the current plastic ‘all-wheel’ pickup steamers). It’s improved the running of my older ones remarkably well. Locos that I’ve had since the mid or late 1960’s now run as smoothly as many of my newer ones.
But in my case at least, I just accept the fact that an occasional ‘trip to the shop’ is part of the price I pay for sticking to steam. Hey, that’s what happened in the ‘real world’ when steam was king, LOL!
As to my F3 A-B set, it runs smooth as silk. Hauls beautifully. Looks very good at the head end of my “Prospector” streamliner. And that’s all I use it for.
So in my case, I’d say that yes, the diesel set is the smoother runner, but despite the occasional ‘tinkering’, my steamers are much more satisfying to run.
Oh, I did pick up an RS-3 a few months ago for local freight and switching duties. Didn’t last too long, though. Worst-running locomotive I’ve EVER had. Can’t even get into it because of all of the electronic doo-hickies that are hiding the motor. I KNOW there
I had HO and S scale steamers as a kid. I remember noticing how my steamers seemed to laterally “see-saw” as I faced them coming towards me. I don’t remember the brand names, but this was back in the 60s and 70s.
I can’t speak for the higher quality HO brass models that have been on the markets a number of years. I assume that the more expensive models are built with motor and drive train components that fit and work together with greater precision.
Before the advent of the Spectrums, BLIs, Protos, & Athearn steamers, the typical HO diesel was a better runner and needed less "care & feeding than available steamers - including brass models.
Today, affordable great running steamers (from the companies listed above) are readily available. That being said, steamers have a lot more moving parts (some delicate), and they are inherently more difficult to maintain than a diesel. That’s just the nature of the beast!
I model the transition era and have 8 steamers and a whole lot of diesels (mostly F units in ABBA configurations). Typically the diesels are less “trouble” and easier to maintain and handle. But there is nothing so magnificent as a Northern pulling a passenger train or a double headed consist of two 2-10-2s or 2-8-0s pulling a long drag freight!
I don’t run steam engines. But I did 30 or so years ago. They did not run that well. Especially across switches and cross overs. And as most have said they need more TLC, especially then. I would think steam engines, as has the entire hobby, have improved.
[2c]I would have to vote that generally the diesels should run better due to simpler running gear. That said, I have (3) Proto steam switchers((2) 0-8-0’s and (1) 0-6-0) whose performances are truly a wonder to behold. They don’t simply run slowly, they literally creep and are smooth throughout their operating envelope. Absolutely perfect for switching duties. BLI Blueline J1 that also is a excellent low speed runner. Bachmann Spectrum 2-6-6-2 that also runs with the best, diesel or steam. Several other steamers from BLI that are excellent runners.
Only steam locos I’m not too impressed with to date is BLI Mohawk hybrid and Spectrum 2-10-2; the Mohawk has a low speed hitch/jerk that is dismaying and per the BLI HO Forum several contributors there have same driveline “hitch”-disconcerting that Mohawk Hybrid doesn’t run as well as aforementioned Blueline J1!(weird that price doesn’t necessarily correlate to quality). Spectrum 2-10-2 runs tight and my experience with Spectrum line is it seems to be a real chancey proposition-sometimes excellent, sometimes aggravating.
I do have several diesels but prefer steam simply because they are more interesting to watch when they are running. End of my [2c].
In current times, modelers are blessed with a nice selection of good running steam with almost all wheel electrical pickup and detailing of a fine brass model. That said, they still need periodic side rod and axle end lubrication or they start to squeak and bind. Older modelers had the choice of Rivarossi with deep “pizza cutter” flanges and 3 pole motors, Mantua diecast or Bowser diecast kits that needed to be detailed some to look really good, and you need to be good with kit assembly for the valve gear that had to be rivited. But they ran awsome and would pull the house down, espicaly the Challenger and Big Boy kits. Then there was Brass, many of which needed weighted, balanced and tuned/lubed to become a smooth running model. All of my brass runs smooth, fairly quiet for having thier original Pittman open frame motors and look stunning while going down the track. Can steam run as smooth as a diesel, yes they can. Just goes into how carefull you lay your track, how well thought out your turnouts are done, keeping the steam within reason to your operating radius so as not to bind or climb the railhead. Takes more effort on the modelers part, just like the real steamers took more attention from the real railroads.
Early steam didn’t run that well, not enough pick-ups. A diesel will run better, all things being equal, partly because the smaller wheels are turning faster & thus have more inertia to overcome bad or dirty track. A slow running passenger steamer with 6’ diameter wheels do not have much inertia even with a flywheel. Jerry
Hmmm…Jerry, I don’t understand. If a steamer weighs what a diesel ways, and they are both doing 30 scale mph, they both have the same momentum. (Inertia is resistance to acceleration into motion from a state of rest.) With two objects of the same mass and velocity, they have the same momentum. So, if we agree that a steamer has a greater tendency to lose momentum, there must be some characteristic about the one that the other doesn’t have. I don’t see how the angular momentum of wheels (which is what you are referring to when you say the diesel’s are rotating more quickly) has anything to do with it. In fact, if they were by themselves, the heavier steamer drivers (running about 8 tons per axle and wheel pair on a CPR H class Hudson) with their momentum would have more energy to dissipate than the lighter diesel driver pairs on an axle.
I am resolved that it has more to do with the linkages and the friction associated with them, and that has to be on the steamer.
Something I remember reading in an old railroad book by Lucius Beebe, that I’ve always thought humorous–this is from the early days of steam/diesel transition:
With a steamer, a problem took 3 minutes to find and 3 days to fix.
With a diesel, a problem took 3 days to find and 3 minutes to fix.
I always got a big kick out of that one. [:P]
Oddly enough, it kind of reminds me of most brass steamers vs. a lot of the contemporary plastic ones.
Brass: 3 screws, the whole superstructure lifts right off of the mechanism.
Plastic: Spend a week trying to FIND the 3 screws, LOL![;)]
For a real education, build a live steamer. The process is fairly simple, add a part, roll it down the track and adjust the part until it rolls smoothly, add a second part, roll it down the track and adjust the part until it runs smoothly, add a third part… et cetera et cetera et cetera. If you do not do this there is a zero chance it will run when you light the boiler, then you will have no idea what the problem is.
I dare say most HO models are built in one shot then tested for about 10 seconds to see if they work before being sold to the customer. If you have a balky steamer, then strip it to it’s skivies and add a part, roll it down the track and adjust the part until it rolls smoothly, add a second part…
What you see as “See-saw” on steamers was called “hunting”.
Your assumption is correct. Just about all brass models are built with higher tolerances than most of the plastic steam locos on the market today. Even the tolerances on brass from the '60s, is higher than the tolerances on the latest plastic.