Read the latest Don Phillips column in Trains. He slams the management of Amtrak pretty hard.
He basically accuses Boardman of fiddling while Rome burns.
Thoughts? Is he being fair? Unfair? Or, just plain nuts?
I have not read his column. However, one “bad dining car experience does not the end of Amtrak make.” Dining cars should not be a focus of Amtrak; transportation of people is its mission.
Well, I have read his column. It stings and it’s the truth. Naturally, when people think of their Amtrak experience the dining car part rates high.
What a strange place this forum is for us Amtrak riders:
Dining car experience awful? Good, one fellow says; Amtrak shouldn’t operate dining cars because they should only be in the transportation business (kind of like Greyhound, right?).
Toilets taken out of roomettes? Good, several people comment; one would hate to stink up one’s own compartment. (Instead, go down the hall and wait to use the toilet someone is just exiting. No smell at all there and no paper on the floor and no water everywhere, right?)
Long distance trains in the first place? No, many here argue; just trains for the east coast and California. The rest of the country can jump in the lake.
Amtrak on freight railroad trackage? No, more people here say. Moving freight counts much more than moving people. We sure don’t want to upset corporate America. Amtrak is socialism!
Don Phillips is warning us that the Amtrak experience is crumbling; just what the freight railroads and so many here seem to want. </
I’m left with a couple of impressions.
One is that Amtrak is reacting very badly to the push to improve the losses from food service. Slashing staff w/o regard to work content is just dumb. The Fred Fraily “Mr Big” blog confirms the wholly unimaginative approach Amtrak is taking. There are a whole range of alternatives out there that are better than this and many of them have been kicked around and fleshed out on these forums.
The other is Boardman is really focused on corridor services. He’s drawing bright lines between LD services and the rest of Amtrak. No more flow of operating net cash from the NEC to help cover the operating costs of the LD trains That cash is being redirected toward new Acela trainsets. Rebadging the LD trains is another example. It’s clear that he’s leaving their survival up to Congress. Ante up or else. Coming up with a long-term new NEC plan is a third. You can argue whether or not this is a good idea, but at least Amtrak is developing some sort of strategic vision where for too long they had zilch.
There is no reason Amtrak can’t provide a decent meal on their trains at a decent price. Amtrak is obviously not an expert at either - they appear to be stuck on the 1950 dining car business model, though. Maybe they should find people who are - there is no shortage of food service experts in the US.
In re:
"Well, I have read his column. It stings and it’s the truth. Naturally, when people think of their Amtrak experience the dining car part rates high.
What a strange place this forum is for us Amtrak riders:
Dining car experience awful? Good, one fellow says; Amtrak shouldn’t operate dining cars because they should only be in the transportation business (kind of like Greyhound, right?).
Toilets taken out of roomettes? Good, several people comment; one would hate to stink up one’s own compartment. (Instead, go down the hall and wait to use the toilet someone is just exiting. No smell at all there and no paper on the floor and no water everywhere, right?)
Long distance trains in the first place? No, many here argue; just trains for the east coast and California. The rest of the country can jump in the lake.
Amtrak on freight railroad trackage? No, more people here say. Moving freight counts much more than moving people. We sure don’t want to upset corporate America. Amtrak is socialism!
Don Phillips is warning us that the Amtrak experience is crumbling; just what the freight railroads and so many here seem to want.
How sad."
All I can say is how sad it is when someone feels compelled to recite the thought processes of others and fails to get anything correct. Instead, he deliberately (I will assume he is not dyslexic) lays out a series of totally inaccurate statements.
[quote user=“NKP guy”]
Well, I have read his column. It stings and it’s the truth. Naturally, when people think of their Amtrak experience the dining car part rates high.
What a strange place this forum is for us Amtrak riders:
Dining car experience awful? Good, one fellow says; Amtrak shouldn’t operate dining cars because they should only be in the transportation business (kind of like Greyhound, right?).
Toilets taken out of roomettes? Good, several people comment; one would hate to stink up one’s own compartment. (Instead, go down the hall and wait to use the toilet someone is just exiting. No smell at all there and no paper on the floor and no water everywhere, right?)
Long distance trains in the first place? No, many here argue; just trains for the east coast and California. The rest of the country can jump in the lake.
Amtrak on freight railroad trackage? No, more people here say. Moving freight counts much more than moving people. We sure don’t want to upset corporate America. Amtrak is socialism!
Don Phillips is warning us that the Amtrak experience is crumbling; just what the freight railroads and so many her
+! I could not agree more.
It is ironic that NKP thinks that those of us who think some aspects of Amtrak need reformed would accuse those who are in favor of passenger rail of being socialists (to quote Seinfeld, “not that there’s anything wrong with that.”). I don’t know about Paul, but I am a proud progressive. I simply want Amtrak improved to provide viable, modern transportation. That does not make me “anti-passenger rail.” I favor the opposite . But as Paul said above, why should the “government subsidize a kind of theme park to the wealthier among us in times past?” If any group should shoulder some of the responsibility for Amtrak’s lack of real progress in its 43 years, it is the NARP-types who want to cling to the “Nostalgia Limiteds” of the golden past.
This may be off topic, but Indiana has chosen Corridor Capital to provide services on the Hoosier State. It may be too early to tell if this is a trend that Amtrak would be limited to only providing operating crews and let someone else do the on board stuff. If others can give better services at a competitive price, could that be a bad thing?
“Why is the word ‘sad’ substituted for ‘angry’?” asks Paul Milenkovic, challenging NKP Guy’s summation, “How sad.”
For starters, maybe because “How angry” makes no sense, linguistically or logically? ( I take it Milenkovic is not an English prof.)
In this discussion, I’ve got to (reluctantly) like Oltmannd’s contribution best. It’s nuts for Amtrak to simply wield the knife to services that, while money-losing, were reasonably well-done and customer-pleasing. And to insult employees in the bargain, a la Mr. Big. (As reported by Fred Frailey; God, I’d like to have ACY’s take on that one.)
Oltmannd says (again) that the way to approach the alleged food problem is via a contractor. I must agree, if the alternative is plastic, food that is worse than before and watered-off servers.
Hate to say it but I experienced the same on the Capitol LImiited Dining Car last September. On two different occasions my party of three was yelled at by the Dining Car staff for mistakes that customers will make:
#1 Pre-filling out the Sleeping Car Voucher prior to the nonsensical instructions being given by the waiter…
#2 Entering the Dining Car after the Condutor said it was open but the Dining Car Staff insisted it wasn’t.
Really bad to treat customers this way and I don’t care if your short staffed that’s not an excuse. They also did not bring me a second wine beverage despite my requesting it. Apparently diners are allowed only one beverage ration even though this beverage is a revenue item. I ate in the Snack Bar after negative experience #2. The First visit to the Snack bar I was treated to the Snack Bar attendent going on break for 30-45 minutes. Despite the line increasing in length to buy items he just sat there and ignored it until the 45 min were up (you know when you go on break it is customary to leave your work station and then come back to it once your ready to serve…apparently that training is missing with the snack car attendent). No problems after that. with the snack bar. I never used the Diner again even though I was First Class. Would rather pay to eat then get yelled at in a patronizing way.
So far this year I have taken four trips from Taylor to Dallas and two trips from Temple to San Diego on the Texas Eagle. I have eaten in the dinning care on all of these trips, although not necessarily every meal. My experiences in the dinning cars have been good.
The announcements regarding how to proceed to the dinning car, as well as the lounge car, and what to expect have been clear. Once in the dinning car all the wait staff have been cheerful, helpful, and reasonably efficient. Moreover, for the most part, the lounge car attendants have been cheerful and helpful.
On my latest trip from LAX to Temple, which was completed this morning, I was impressed by the spirit and helpfulness of the lead dinning car wait person. She was upbeat, enthusiastic, and helpful. Equally important, the wait staff were efficient and effective; they filled out my meal card without a problem, took care of my beverage requests promptly, and served the food quickly. On Number 2, at least last night, the diner was full, so they were challenged by the workload.
The quality of the food, however, is another issue. Denny’s - not exactly an up market restaurant - offers much better quality food at considerably less cost. Last night two of my table mates had the steak, which goes for $26 or $27. I asked how they liked it. They said that it was very good. My dish had chicken, which had I dropped it on the edge of the table, would probably have broken the table, as well as collard greens and rice. The greens were terrible; the rice was passable.
Food service is not an Amtrak core competency. They should outsource it to a contract vendor, as per numerous prior posts on this subject. They probably could get a better result, although whether they could reduce the subsidies is problematic.
Dakotafred: (Paragraph) When “Mr. Big” addressed Auto Train employees to explain the proposed service changes, I couldn’t be there. I, myself, was taking some time off for personal reasons. Crew 1 was in the process of preparing the train for departure, so they couldn’t be there. Crew 5 was in Florida so they couldn’t be there. Crew 4 had just completed a trip from Florida that morning, so most of them were too tired to be there. Crews 2 and 3 were on their layover days (i.e., their own personal time), so many of them couldn’t be there for various reasons. Nevertheless, I understand there was a fairly good turnout. Many more people would have been able to have the benefit of hearing Mr. Big’s presentation from the horse’s mouth if more meetings had been held. (Paragraph) Folks who were there have universally told me that Mr. Big’s attitude was dismissive of any notion that Auto Train’s veteran staff had anything to be proud of, or could in any way contribute ideas that would help to improve the bottom line. The idea of saving money was so important to Mr. Big that he evidently expressed no interest in taking any steps to soften the impact on the passengers’ experience or the impact of an increased work load on the employees. According to more than one witness, Mr. Big’s comment that dissatisfied employees were welcome to leave and could be easily replaced by more malleable types, was accurately reported in Fred Frailey’s column. The effect on crew morale was little short of toxic. (Paragraph) I did a little quick examination of the Auto Train’s seniority roster and discovered (1) that Mr. Big’s name is not on it, and I understand he has never worked in any capacity in onboard service. He has never done the work that he assumes is such a walk in the park for OBS crews. (2) A tabulation (subject to error on my part) indicates that as of March, 2014, the total seniority of all onboard employees on the Auto Train is around 2,070 years. That&#
I agree with that but would take it a little further. I’m convinced his basic tactic is the same one the railroads used when they wanted to abandon a passenger route. Let the long distance service deteriorate to the point at which patronage disappears, and then use dwindling passenger numbers to justify discontinuance. Amtrak becomes the Northeast Corridor plus the (temporary) operator of state supported services.
Mr. Boardman is a creature of the Northeast, and I think he overestimates the political influence of that region. In another recent post someone outlined the decreasing number of House seats in the northeast and rust belt states. Without the long distance trains the situation is even worse in the Senate. I wonder where the funds are going to come from to maintain and upgrade the Corridor infrastructure and equipment should that be the case.
Personally I’ve been embarked on a multiyear project to ride each of the long distance routes as my time and funds permit before they disappear.
Thank you to ACY for his insider’s look at Mr. Big and his brutal approach to employee relations.
ACY, I hadn’t realized your retirement was so imminent. May it be a long and happy one, and include many railroad miles! I’m sure passengers on the Auto Train and your fellow dining-car employees will be the poorer for your departure.
If Mr. Boardman is trying to kill off the long distance trains by reducing the number of passengers using them, he is not headed in the right direction.
From FY09 through FY13 the number of long distance passengers increased from 4.2 million to 4.8 million or an increase of 13.2 per cent.
The percentage of Amtrak’s long distance passengers has remained fairly steady at 15.4% to 15.1%. The problem for the long distance trains, however, is that their costs have outstripped their revenues and, therefore, the loss before depreciation and interest has increased from $515.1 million in FY09 to $627.1 million in FY13 or an increase of 21.7 per cent.
Based on what I have read on these forums, as well in other sources, many people seem to think that Boardman is trying to spin off the long distance trains to a separate entity and is not trying to kill them. Doing so would give Amtrak a decent shot at covering all of its operating costs and a substantial portion of its capital costs.
The contrast between ACY’s comments and the experiences of CMStP&P and sam1 in dining “services” are enlightening, if not entertaining.
Don,
I think you’re right about passenger service. Amtrak has made real efforts to improve intercity service with state funding and those efforts are showing some results. And there is a commitment to NEC service, especially to replacing the catenary. As far as long distance service is concerned, without support from Congress there is not much Joe Boardman can do. We’ll have to see what Congress does. It seems to me long distance service is slowly eroding.
You say Amtrak is “stuck on the 1950 dining car business model.” I think the problem is that they are not stuck on that model. Serving human beings basic needs like food has not changed from the 1950’s or even the 1850’s.
John
According to the nice Harpers article which was largely pro-Amtrak, the riders of LD trains are mostly foamers, the elderly with physical problems that make flying difficult, people with a phobia about flying and British elderly. Not the basis for much of a growth market or future.
The title of this thread was:
Does bad dining car experience mean Amtrak is dying?
And my answer, once again, is that the negative experience of Don Phillips on an Amtrak diner does NOT generalize into the end of Amtrak. That is an illogical conclusion, an over-generalization.
Is it possible that there is a chicken & egg situation ? Without enough revenue cars with more revenue passengers on LD trains the food service cars are going to loose larger amounts of money More revenue cars ( coaches and sleepers ) will allow for more passengers ( especially longer distances ) to use the food service Then not enough patronage Amtrak cuts back on food service causing the loss of some passengers. Food service then cut back some more. Did that not happen in the 1960s ?