Sheldon,
Um, you’re missing something rather important with regards to “in stock”. Namely, the sheer amount of product being produced today vs. yesterday.
For example, in 1971, Athearn made 275 different locomotive SKU’s, and that includes dummy versions. Hobby shops could and did stock every Athearn loco. In 2012 (the last data I have), Athearn made 480 different loco SKU’s (including sound versions). Most hobby shops don’t even have room for all that.
The other problem is the cost. In 1971, a hobby shop could stock Athearn’s entire loco line with a retail value of $2,790.97 ($16,787.37 in today’s money). To buy one of everything from Athearn in 2012 would have cost a shop $129,390.40 ($137,285.34 in 2017).
Add that to the reduced retail discount, our collective refusal to pay MSRP for anything, and the internet’s influence, it’s no wonder we are where we are.
One further point: our hobby is and always has been about reproducing the real thing. Folks who wanted to model real railroads accurately back in the day had to make due with generic locos (unless they modeled the PRR or UP). A hobby shop could stock generic locos and sell them profitably, not because there was a demand for generic models, but because there was nothing else (in plastic). The hobbyist had no choice. Today, with accurate models of just about every Class I being made, the hobbyist doesn’t have to buy that USRA heavy Pacific and paint it in NH. They can just go buy a NH I-4 Pacific. That means the hobby shop can no longer sell generic locos; they must stock what people want, which are accurate models of the prototypes they want and not generic copi
Sheldon,
Um, you’re missing something rather important with regards to “in stock”. Namely, the sheer amount of product being produced today vs. yesterday.
For example, in 1971, Athearn made 275 different locomotive SKU’s, and that includes dummy versions. Hobby shops could and did stock every Athearn loco. In 2012 (the last data I have), Athearn made 480 different loco SKU’s (including sound versions). Most hobby shops don’t even have room for all that.
The other problem is the cost. In 1971, a hobby shop could stock Athearn’s entire loco line with a retail value of $2,790.97 ($16,787.37 in today’s money). To buy one of everything from Athearn in 2012 would have cost a shop $129,390.40 ($137,285.34 in 2017).
Add that to the reduced retail discount, our collective refusal to pay MSRP for anything, and the internet’s influence, it’s no wonder we are where we are.
One further point: our hobby is and always has been about reproducing the real thing. Folks who wanted to model real railroads accurately back in the day had to make due with generic locos (unless they modeled the PRR or UP). A hobby shop could stock generic locos and sell them profitably, not because there was a demand for generic models, but because there was nothing else (in plastic). The hobbyist had no choice. Today, with accurate models of just about every Class I being made, the hobbyist doesn’t have to buy that USRA heavy Pacific and paint it in NH. They can just go buy a NH I-4 Pacific. That means the hobby shop can no longer sell generic locos; they must stock what people want, which are accurate models of the pr
I’m still a big fan of Accurail. There is one vendor who shows up at most of the bigger shows here in New England. I’ve always thought of him as “The Screw Guy” because he sells bags of small screws and nuts for very reasonable prices, mostly those 2-56 ones we modelers always need. Every show, he has so many Accurail cars that I’ve taken to printing up a spreadsheet of my rolling stock so I don’t end up with duplicates.
It’s nice to see some of my “old friend” vendors, because I know they’ll always have something I want.
Just a comment about producing things in China. Southern Indiana has a pretty big office furniture “manufacturing” industry…the real stuff…not press board with embossed grain, due to the extensive hardwood forests in that part of the State (there’s more than corn in Indiana)
About ten years ago, it was actually cheaper to fell the wood in Indiana, mill it into useable stock, then ship the stock to China to have it fabricated and assembled, then ship the assembled desks and bookcases back to the US to sell thoughout America; than it was to build the hardwood products locally and ship them throughout the country.
Tells us something about the differences in the cost of labor…at least about 10 years ago.
Not sure if Accurail or Bowser stay made in America because a big part of their business is kit products that don’t need assembly.
Accurail only offers kits. 10+ years ago they did dabble in RTR for a short time. However, they found it wasn’t as profitable for them so they went back to manufacturing kits exclusively.
I just purchased three more Accurail kits last week and am always happy to support them as much as I am able. And I think the newer kits have better detail to them than even a few years ago.
Thanks fellas for all the great info. Mostly, I’m trying to track down Pennsy hoppers. So another question I have is - How does pre-ordering stuff work. Do you ever get your product? If so, how long does it take?
That can vary. I’ve been waiting for nearly 4 years for True Line Train to release their NYC 19000-series wood cabooses. A couple of BLI steamers took less than a year.
The few pre-orders that I’ve dealt with did not require a down payment of any kind. I only had to put my name in with a vendor to say I was interested in one - with no obligation to buy. More recently I’ve just waited until the prices came down and ordered what I wanted on websites like eBay or MB Klein.
So essentially pre-ordering is telling the manufacturer that you’d be interested in purchasing “X” quantity of a product. I’m guessing when they get enough interest they produce a run? So, generally, no real guarantee the product will be available in the near future?
Or if they don’t get enough in some limited time frame they cancel the project altogether.
If it’s something you really want, you need to pre-order and hope they get enough. Otherwise you wait and take a chance. I have only pre-ordered twice and both times it was for something I really wanted. In both cases a limited number were made and never repeated - nor do I think they ever will be.
I respectfully disagree. The better manufacturers have a modest number of extras made to cover last minute buyers.
Preorders are essentially firm orders. The manufacturer sets a preorder cutoff date. If Bowser who has a preorder date either looming or past, does not receive enough orders for Santa Fe blue and yellow warbonnet F-9’s by that date, they will not get made, period.
Unlike some brass importers of the past they do not sit around waiting for enough orders to come in and then say ok lets make it, years later.
Bowser, Atlas, and Intermountain are now sharing at least one factory. Production slots have to be filled. If there are not enough preorders then the production slot will go to someone else. Last time I preordered it must have been a bad time for dealers as 4 different F-7’s did not get made due to lack of orders. This is also Walthers’ problem: announce cool passenger train at wrong time of year, or for delivery at wrong time of year (summer, when dealers are cash poor) and watch entire project crash and burn.
The one F-7 I wanted got all of 20 orders, far below minimum build quantity, and was never made. I am hoping the Santa Fe F-9 does well enough.
I’m dying for my order of Challenger scheme UP express cars to come in, should be next couple of days.
They might have the best detail of all the “kit” cars out there. I have been very impressed by the last few releases. Outside of cleaning up some casting flash here and there, the pieces fit together immacuately.
I like variety and the ability to switch stuff out and change it up. $40 cars don’t help me out and due to traveling because of no home layout, less detail works out better for me due to transport and handling.
We also need ScaleTrains to offer more in their Kit Classic line as well. Nice pieces for the money.
Yes, and I have thought about purchasing one from time-to-time. I also have four Waterlevel Models and one Gloorcraft kit that I still need to put together, paint, and/or detail.
Last year I was looking at their web site and came across a page describing how they were going to make the details parts. They described a 3D printer. I did a search for that 3D printer and came up with this link.
After about a month or so that page was no longer available. So I’m asuming they may still be making there prototype parts this way. These 3D printers are used by dentists for designing a single tooth for implant technology.
I know someone who is selling 3-d printed Ho parts as a business, and they are very impressive, There are still quite a few Model Railroad companies making things here, it actualy has increased slightly with the wages increasingly rapidly in China. Micro-trains, Con-Cor, Deluxe Innovations, Woodland Scenics, JMD Plastics, Accurail, Bowser, Alpine Division, Micro-Engineering, Kadee, even Lionel has brought some production back, they have a really beautiful Line of rolling stock being made in Virginia. The U.S.A is still a good place to make things! When you factor in the stability,better supply possibilities, Chinese labor shortages(many of those who used to work for toy factories now work in the automotive manufacturing industry), not having to deal with overseas shipping there are advantages to bringing it home.
The challenge is the Chinese labor is still so much less expensive than here. Some folks are dreaming about bringing manufacturing back here. In most cases the math just doesn’t work. China also has very few regulations on manufacturing relative to here (they can do things we can’t; they can paint today’s trains with lead paint if they want to and nobody will know any better–we can’t). Relocating an entire operation away from where it has been located in America (to another state with allegedly better prospects) is a huge financial proposition, with questionnable rate of return. You are actually talking millions of dollars to up and move for a company the size of Bowser. There are machines and tooling and parts inventories and stock, all of which would have to be packed and shipped, all of which would be an overhead charge to the company. Then you will be laying off some really good employees, while still relocating entire families (yes plural) to the new location. You would be moving 50+ years worth of “stuff”.
Also, selling kits takes more time to pack, and different packaging than rtr. The Chinese are not good at picking and sorting parts into bags, and checking them, and they prefer not to do that at all–meaning when they do do it, they probably charge more. They are good at rapid assembly, and if they drop a part on the floor, they simply pick up another from the tray and move on (this was discussed by Jason of Rapido in one of his videos of the Chinese factory).
It is very easy for anyone to come online here and make statements about how things should be and the economic climate in one state, etc. being “better” than somewhere else. It is quite another thing all together to begin to contemplate what would be required to relocate a manufacturer/importer. There is quite simply much more equipment, tooling, hardware, etc. than most people can begin to co
