EB1 is not resetting

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

I am using NCE Power Cab system with an SB5. Installed the EB1 per instructions with connections to the SB5 and to the track. Everything was fine. I intentionaly shorted the track to test the EB1. It shut down the system as it was supposed to. But I waited for the EB1 to reset and return power but it did not. I turned off the power and turned it back on and the system was back up. Tried this several times with the same result. The instructions indicate that the EB1 comes from the factory with a restart setting of two seconds. I waited 15 to 20 seconds with no result. Can anyone tell me what needs to be done?

Thanks

wdcrvr

2

Is this the newer version 1.1?

I don’t know about 1.0 but the new version can be set up to require a manual reset. That requires a push button.

See the instructions here You can reverse engineer the instructions to turn off the manual reset, if that is the problem.

3

I think that Henry may be on to something here.

If your EB1 is version 1.0, I’m not sure that it works with the Power Cab which may be why you have to power down your system and then power up again.

I reserve the right to be wrong here.

Rich

4

Since I am using the SB5 the power cab is functioning just as another controller. I would not think that would be the problem?

5

I would not think so either, but we are really missing Randy who wouid have solved it by now.

6

Which version of the EB1 do you have?

Rich

7

I have version 1.1

wdcrvr

8

Well, then, it is certainly not a compatibility issue. NCE advertises the fact that the EB1 Version 1.1 “works with the Power Cab”.

Put a call in to NCE. They answer the phone and provide excellent technical support.

Rich

9

I called NCE. I spoke with Ed. When I mentioned that I had some AR1s (3) on my layout he said that was most likely the trouble. Sounds like the AR1 are throwing off the ability (not his terminology) of the EB1 to do its job properly and reset itself. I need to change my wiring so that wire from SB1 goes into a terminal strip. Then wiring goes from one pair of leads of the terminal strip to the EB1 and then on to the track. Then each of the AR1s needs to be wired to other terminals on the strip instead of being wired directly to the track or the buss. So I hope I have this figured out. Ordered some wire from Lowes. Should be available by next Wednesday. Any thoughts from the audience? I am confused as to how this will work. I can wire a house but I don’t understand how this works? Also, I do have a terminal strip with each pair of lugs insulated from the others. Is that the right thing to use?

10

Glad to learn that you called NCE and got some helpful advice.

Some years back, I had a somewhat similar problem. In my case, I had some Digitrax AR1s on my layout which always worked fine until I created power districts and added PSX circuit breakers. The PSX units were solid state and the AR1s had mechanical relays. The result was that the PSX units reacted faster than the AR1s and shut down the power districts before the AR1s could react to the short. I wound up replacing the AR1s with PSX-ARs at the suggestion of the late Randy Rinker.

What is different about your problem is that NCE is suggesting that the solid state EB1 is incompatible with the mechanically relayed AR1, causing the EB1 to malfunction. NCE is suggesting a wiring protocol in which the AR1s will not be downstream from the EB1.

Before rewiring everything, you might try disabling the AR1s to see if the EB1 will then function correctly. If it does, and your budget can afford it, you might consider replacing the AR1s with PSX-AR units so that everything will be solid state and compatible with one another.

Rich

11

How is your wiring set up now? Are the AR1s wired downstream from the EB1? If so, you want to rewire that protocol so that the AR1s are powered independently from the EB1.

Rich

12

Hello All,

I am in the EXACT same situation- -with a few differences.

Because of that, I am only responding to your specific situation with my experiences and solutions without speculation or presumption.

Just this week I upgraded from a Bachmann Dynamis system with the ProBox and 5 Amp booster to the NCE wireless PowerPro.

My 4’ x 8’ pike has a wye with an MRC AD 520 auto-reversing unit.

Even with the Bachmann ProBox the programming track was practically useless.

As per NCEs own documents the “programming track” output of the command station/booster does not provide enough power to move a locomotive, it only has enough power to program non-sound decoders.

When the programming track is included in the pike; from the output of the command station/booster, the locomotives will “die” after passing over the gapped rails.

I installed an NCE Auto SW. This has two options of setting up a programming track on the pike.

When I installed the NCE system I also included an EB1 in the mix.

I don’t use a power bus. Instead, I have the track feeders emanating out from a central terminal strip, thus creating a single power district for all intents and purposes.

The terminal strip has 8 lugs, each insulated from the other, as you have described.

You can buy metal clips that act as jumpers to energize the adjacent lugs. I made “pig-tails” with short sections of wire and spade connectors to do the same thing between isolated lugs.

I did not change the wiring of the pike.

After installation, I had the same problem of the EB1 not resetting.

The AR 520 is a mechanical device. You can hear an audible “click” when the polarity shifts.

After the EB1 tripped I could hear the A

13

Haven’t heard from the OP in a few days. When he first posted about his problem, he did not mention the three AR1s on his layout. He did indicate that he intentionally shorted the track to test the EB1, but it is not clear how he shorted the track and whether one of the reversing sections was involved. It is also not clear how he has wired the layout from the SB5 to the EB1 and how the AR1s are wired as part of this protocol. So, there are some unanswered questions.

Rich

14

Hello All,

I am responding to the OPs specific situation with MY experiences and solutions to a similar situation I am facing- -without presumption or speculation.

It has been said, “A picture is worth a thousand words.” I don’t have the ability to post a picture so I’ll try and keep my explanation to under a thousand words.

As I posted before my situation is slightly different in that I have added an NCE Auto SW and I only have one (1) MRC AD-520 Reversing unit while you are using three AR1s, but the basic schematic will be the same, minus the Auto SW.

From the Command Station/Booster (SB1) run a set of wires to a terminal (

15

Rich

I did not mention the 3 AR1s at first because it did not occcur to me that they would be a part of the problem. It came up when I was talking to Ed at NCE. AS I stated in my last post he told me how to corrct that issue. Since then I decided to just disconnect the 3 AR1s from the power source which left the reversing sections unpowered. However that did not correct the problem, so I called NCE and talked to Ed again. We determined that the setting on the EB1 was set at 1.5 amps and since I was using the SB5 (5 amps) I needed to change the EB1 setting to the 5.4 amp setting. Bingo! Problem solved. It actually was a combination of the AR1 problem and the setting on the EB1 being too low. So, as soon as I get the wire I need I will have everything in order. Great customer service from NCE!!!

Thanks for all the inputs.

wdcrvr

16

Hello All,

Thanks for the info.

In the instruction manual, it talks about “How” to set up the various Amperage ratings, through the DIP switches, but it doesn’t talk about the “Why”.

Thank you for sharing your conversations with Ed at NCE, it helped me immensely.

Hope this helps.

17

Since my last posting I have reconnected one of the AR1. One pair of wires to the reversing section and the other pair of wires to a seperate pair of lugs on the terminal strip. Since the EB1 is on a different output of the terminal strip this AR1 is not “downstream” from the EB1. Everything works just fine. So, as soon as I get the wire I need I will reconnect the other two AR1s in the same manner and expect to have no problems. Problem solved and I learned some stuff in the process. Hats off again to NCE.

wdcrvr

18

Thanks for the update.

I am glad you took my advice and called NCE. They have terrific customer support.

Rich

19

One thing that surprised me a bit was the recommendation to set the EB1 trip current switch setting to 5.4 amps. Since the SB5 is a 5 amp booster but without circuit breaker protection, it would seem to be more prudent to set the EB1 at 4.1 amps so that it trips before the SB5 has to deal with a short circuit greater than 5.0 amps.

The SB5 and Power Cab have built in overcurrent sensing for basic self-protection that will continuously try to reset until destroyed if left uncorrected. But, they do not have circuit breakers that will trip or fuses that will blow. So my suggestion is to change the EB1 trip current switch setting to 4.1 amps, just to be safe.

Rich

20

Something else to consider is the lack of any circuit breakers on your AR1s. Since neither the SB5 nor the AR1 has circuit breaker protection, you risk damaging the SB5 with a dead short inside one of the reversing sections.

It is usually desirable to divide a layout into separate power districts. NCE suggests that multiple EB1 circuit breakers be used to protect separate power districts, one per power district. But a problem arises when a reversing section becomes, in effect, its own power district. It has no circuit breaker protection.

If you wire the AR1 downstream of an EB1 to gain circuit breaker protection, the EB1 (solid state) will react faster than the AR1 (mechanical relay). In that event, the AR1 will fail to reverse the polarity of the rails inside the reversing section.

The best practice is to use solid state auto reversers with solid state circuit breakers. As an alternative to the AR1, I suggest that you consider the PSX-AR which is both an auto reverser and a circuit breaker. Your EB1 could continue to serve as a circuit breaker for the non-reversing section of your layout, which will be its own power district.

Rich