On my layout, I will have a 20 AMP supply coming from the breaker on a dedicated outlet for the layout.
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I was told that it is OK to use 15 amp electrical outlets in the legs of the layout on the 20 amp circuit.
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I plan to simply daisy-chain all the outlest together, but I am afraid I might cuase an unsafe condition. If I have more than 15 amps passing through the metal connector on the 15 amp outlet, will that create a problem?
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Do I need to wire-nut the wires together and use a short lead to the outlet to prevent this?
Your circuit is protected by a 20 amp circuit breaker so all your outlets should be 20 amp also.
You may think that you’ll keep the load down, but my experience has been that it is very easy to overload a circuit with too many devices - lamps, power packs, tv’s, etc.
I’m not an electrician, but I’m not sure that hanging outlets on your layout legs wired into the house current meets code or is safe. Personally, I would find another way to do it.
15-amp outlets are rated at 20 amps pass through. The 15 amp rating applies to the device plugged in to the outlet. A device that draws more than 15 amps will have a plug that will not fit in your 15 amp outlet.
All of the outlets provide the full amperage that your house circuit is wired for.
Your concern is on the 12v side of the system.
Nonetheless Amperage is something that your equipment draws from a circuit, you can have 20 amps on your track circuit (Like the LION does) but a trainstill draws less than one amp. When I have all ten trains running at once my draw is still less that 10 amps. Now if you put a quarter on my tracks all 20 amps will pass through that circuit, and I have burned up more than one resistor on my layout.
Your equipment decides how much amperage to draw. Real Subway Trains can draw on almost unlimited amperage although each car is fused for 600 amps. Actually when accelerating the draw is 300 amps per car or 3000 amps per trains. And how many trains might be on the same circuit at the same time. We are talking real power here.
We have three 100 amp fuses out on the power pole, but that is at 4000+ volts. Avter it has been delivered to our transformers we have thousands of amps at 110 volts.
Your transformer or power supply is limited to its design capibilities and is fused (or provided with a circuit breaker) accordingly. Typically 1 to 3 amps. Put a quarter on your tracks and it will try to draw maybe ten amps, maybe more, but your circuit breaker says, nothing doing.
put simply your drawing anta gona work , your trying to draw 36 amps on a 20 amp breaker .a 15 amp outlet means 15 amps load can be pulled from it but safety standards limited load to 80% of rating .
Using 15 amp outlets in a 20 amp circuit is approved by NEC. I only question the ability of a 15 amp outlet to pass through 20 amps on the connection built into the outlet.
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Perfectly safe, and designed for it. NEC approved and industrial ANSI rated.
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I seriously doubt the layout woulf ever pull more than 5 amps. I just want to avoid ANYTHING dangerous. John Allen’s GORRE AND DAPHETID died in an electrical fire. I do not want the STRATTON AND GILLETTE to be in the same danger.
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Yeah, I should have posted this question in the evening hours.
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It sounds like it is OK if this is true. Thank you Carl425.
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In my example I am drawing 18 amps. I will never use this much current. I need to know if this situation occurs due to equipment failure or something else I do not create a fire hazard.
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Please, someone with electrical (NEC) knowledge look at the drawing in the first post and let me know the answer. If you need additional clarificaion just ask.
Your OK with your drawing, I was worried about you actually drawing that much current for your layout. I’ve got all kinds of electronic stuff on and around my layout and with everything on at the same time it would be well under 10 amps at 120 volts.
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According to the John Allen site the problem was with the heater. John had the ducks blocked and someone turned on the thermostat causing the furnace to come on when no one was there.
I had a conversation with someone who was a friend of Allen. He had a space heater than he turned off when things were done. After his brother took over that task was forgoten and an electrical cord overheated and started the fire. But details are unimportant in reality.
Kevin, I am an electrician. Using 15 amp receptacles is fine unless you know that you are going to plug in something that is over 15 amps into a single receptacle. A heat gun is about 12 amps. So is an electric heater.
The only thing I can think of that you might plug in with higher amps is an air conditioner or a microwave. You should have a separate circuit for that if it is a large unit.
If you are going to plug in a heater and a heat gun at the same time you will overload the circuit.
By the way. For 20 amp circuits you must use #12 size wire. The circut breaker is always based on wire size used.
So my question is, what are you planning to to plug in that is 9 amps? If you know everything that you are planning to use at once then you can add them all up and see what the load is.
If you have any concerns about 20 amps not being enough then simply have two 20 amp circuits installed. It is the same amount of work as a single curcuit.
I’m also not an electrician, but did complete my own wiring on a 500 sq ft home addition a few years ago (12?) with the aid of plenty of reading, and access to several electricians at work. As I recall, yes you can have 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp service, and yes daisy chaining is fine with the exception of the ground wire. That must be pigtailed. There also must be more than one receptacle too, although local codes may limit the total number. The concept being that you will not pull that much current from a single receptacle. However, if you are putting in a dedicated 20 amp circuit for say a dishwasher/microwave/window air conditioner and there will only be the single receptacle on the circuit, then the receptacle must be a 20 amp receptacle.
It was probably an extention cord. Unless you buy a cord with the proper size wire then you shouldn’t use one with a heater. Most indoor extention cords use #16 size wire which is too small. And since the circuit breaker is for #14 or #12 wire it won’t trip to avoid a fire.
Nothing, I think the whole layout might draw less than 5 amps. My only concern is that IF something went wrong and the entire circuit was drawing 16-18 amps, would the first receptical in the daisy chain be under-capacity.
I am not a licensed electrician, but I have done some extensive residential wiring around my house. I agree with Lone Wolf and Santa Fe that 15 amp outlets can be used on a 20-amp breakered circuit. But, then, you gotta use 12 gauge wire.
So, why not just use 14 gauge wire and a 15 amp circuit breaker, Kevin? Or, use 20 amp outlets on the 20 amp circuit.
Also, your wiring diagram is correct. You simply daisy chain the wire from one outlet to another to another.
I will be using 12 gauge wire everywhere. I build for the worst possible possibility.
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One day I might have my Jazzy Chair plugged in recharging, a vacuum cleaner, and a space heater all at the same time. Maybe even a cappucino machine to boot!
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I always believe in safety first, and I am wary of electricity.
Electrician and electrical inspector chiming in here. Your plan is fine. I understand your concern that the outlet itself will be the weak link in the system, but if you look closely at a 15 amp outlet and a 20 amp outlet, most times they both use the same metal parts anyways, with the major difference being the 20 amp outlet will have the “T-slot” to allow for a 20 amp plug. I would advise you to use a “commercial grade back wired” outlet. They are more rugged than a standard residential grade and will hold up better to the repeated use they will see on your layout legs (I’ve been following your other thread!) They also will accept the #12 wire inserted the back, and the connection will be made by tightening the side screw to compress the wire very securely. They cost between $2-$3 each and are very much worth it. Finally, alot of electricians would join the incoming and outgoing wires together with a pigtail coming off to feed the outlet, so that any downstream current does not flow thru the outlet, but with a commercial grade outlet and the stranded wire you are using you’ll be fine without that step.
I’d also like to thank you for your test layout thread. Watching your progress inspired me to get going with finishing my train room in my basement, which has been just an unfinished junk filled room in the basement for far too long!
you drawing is fine if you are not trying to draw that amprage , if you do experance a short the braker will kick . if i were doing it i would use a groung fault braker or the first outlet as a gfi . and don’t go cheep on the outlets and get the ones that don’t have screw connections on the side , IMHO i don’t like the srtip and stick. i had a federal high voltage card for years and you are right on safety first , seen several guys bit the big ine from cheating on things.
