For the record, as a railfan and photographer, I hate the GEVOs. They are so asthetically unappealing. If you have photographed one, you have photographed them all. The SD40-2 however is a locomotive with character - second best to the SD60.
Anyway, my question is after all of the old EMD GP38’s, 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and the SD40’s are retired, what is going to happen to the local switching operations? You see today’s road locomotives as tomorrow’s local switchers, but I just don’t see a 200 ton GEVO rolling down the rickety sidings and industrial spurs twenty years from now without some major track upgrades!
I have yet to see any of the newer industrial switchers that some of you have talked about. And was I dreaming, or did up until recently EMD offer a light duty switching locomotive?
According to someone else, the UP doesn’t even have CWR on its mainline on the Adams Sub, since it would take upgrading of far too many grade crossings to make CWR installation worthwhile…!!!
The last new block they tried the H-Series was a disaster and a total failure in service. GE on the other hand knew the FDL was at its limit at 4400 HP and came up with the HDL and that at 6000 HP was a good unit you do not see CSX or UP retiring those units do you. <<
The EMD 265H prime mover is no worse than the GE HDL. GE nolonger offers the HDL prime mover. The HDL was redesigned twice, first after the first prime mover was shipped to the US due to the fact that its physical dimensions were too large, the second time to try and strenthen the engine block and turbochargers due to severe vibration problems. There were the connecting rod problems which resulted in the CSX AC6000CW fleet being derated to 4400-4700hp for quite a while while GE tried to correct the problem. These units are mechanical failures and the reason they are still in service is due to GE being the one who covers the tab on these units. For GE, the HDL prime mover was a massive failure and they have been involved in lawsuits with the company they partnered with to design and build this diesel. The prime mover which is now in the GE GEVO locomotives is a completely redesigned version of the HDL. On the outside they may look the same, but everything is different between the two on the inside. The biggest change was a completely redesigned crankcase which was a big problem in the HDL. GE chose to go with a new prime mover rather than an FDL in its future locomotives due to the fact that there would have to be major modifications made to the FDL for it to be made compliant with the Tier II emissions standards.
For EMD, the 265H was a learning experience as well. The actual prime mover was debugged, being redesigned early on to correct engine block walls which were too thin and to solve cooling issues but problems within the electrical system of the SD90MAC-H have been the major issue with that locomotive. The 265H has quietly continued in developement and will be powering
Union Pacific has taken a rather novel approach with some of their SD40-2s. They removed t he turbos but kept the three radiator fans in a conversion that essentially amounts to an SD38-2 for heavy duty hump service at such major yards as Bailey Yard in North Platte,Nebraska and other locations where SD38 type power is mighty useful. Norfolk Southern still has their substantial Norfolk and Western fleet of engines and most of the Southern SD40-2s still in service. There will still be a place for these engines as long as there are jobs that are not suited for today’s newer power. I wonder if any converted for passenger use would be a viable commuter/passenger engine?
BRC has 5 hump pushers comprised of a de-rated SD40-2 and a six-motor slug, I believe that de-rated SD40/SD40-2’s are more common than you think.
As far as new switchers: MPI, NRE and Railpower are going after this market with gen-sets of various sizes and conventional designs with Cat and other prime movers. So far, they’re mostly in Texas and California because of environmental regs but I’m sure they will eventually turn up elsewhere because of upcoming EPA regs. NS also has some on their roster.
EMD is going to be in a WORLD of hurt then if they are determined to stick with the 710 for the future. I have seen the proposed tier 3 emisson standards and there is no way a 2 stroke design will make it. They are calling for a 40% reduction in the tier 2 amounts of NOX and CO2 and particualtes. The OTR transportion industry is having enough problems meeting the emissons with using aftertreatments that can not be jarred or shaken and also have to be changed every 60 days and it takes 6 hours to change them and this is a 400 hp movie with an EGR valve.
The real end of the SD40-2 era would be the 40-2’s leaving CPRail. They had one of the most extensive rosters of SD40-2’s (5500 series to 6000 series with some other units in between). If the SD40-2’s began leaving CPRail, the era would truly be over…
…But that isn’t going to happen, at least for a while :).
Sounds like a nice idea but… I think the days of the six-axle commuter/passenger locomotive died when the SDP40Fs turned out to be less-than-satisfactory. Though you never know what starvin’ Amtrak might do if they needed additional locomotives in a pinch…!
Well, don’t speak too soon… ICE just picked up 8 ex-CP units, and they’re headed to Horicon (WSOR paintshop) for their new clothes: http://www.fuzzyworld3.com/3um/viewtopic.php?t=1149
There’s still plenty of AC44s comin’ (yes, I know the new ones are “ES44s”), but the SD40-2 will still have a presence on the CP for a while. It would be nice, IMO, to see more of them in a unified corporate image, like CP 6015… [;)]
Plus CP rail the Largest Fleet was with the BNSF I think with almost 1000 units and now I think there are around 400 left IIRC and with more being retired as the GEVO’s come this year then the SD70ACE’s next year that order is 200 alone and that is going to be the death knell on the BNSF for them.
EMDX SD70ACE #70 has had major modifications made earlier this year with what is believed to be some type of catalatic converter or new intercooler. Photos of the unit from when it was new and when it showed up with the modifications back in April show some quite obvious differences just ahead of the prime mover and in the area of the exhaust system.
I caught this unit in new paint at St Denis Md. on 7/7/07 in paint. Look at the second pic, it appears that somebody does not know which way the 8’s should go though.
I think the SD40-2 will be around for a while. Last week I saw a CSX work train that was running a GP30. But eventually, just like the F-units, the 40-2 will meet it’s end. I just hope a few get saved in running condition to be used at some of the rail museums in the country.
Wow, I don’t know what’s more impressive in this thread, the bitterness or the ignorance? GE has sold a lot more units over the past 15 years, but I wouldn’t call the numbers EMD has “throwing them a bone.” EMD had delivery issues too.
Further, Suggesting that the 710 is just the same technology is the 567 is one of the craziest things I’ve ever read on the internet. The 710 is to the 567 as that Ford Mustang is to the Ford Pinto.
As was already stated, both GE and EMD had serious problems with their 6000HP Prime movers. In the end, EMD’s problems were more electrical. Much like the problems the 50series had.
I don’t know the future status of the H engine. I suppose if 2-stroke Diesels become to hard to make meet standards, then they’ll go back to the H-Engine which was a 4 stroke, but we’ll see. EMD is certainly thinking about this way more then us Shmucks on the internet.
Try a NW-5 in notch 8 pulling only 10 cars, then you can complain about your horrid conditions…or try worrking with a GE 44 toner with no heat/ a.c. and you can see threw the bullet hole in the window I know they are pigs to work with but so are all locomotives from 40 years ago you cant expect much from somthing that has over 2 million miles on it.
Funny, every REAL engineer I’ve ever talked with always speaks highly of the SD40 Family - no matter the age or condition!!!
Two relatives of mine {one retired after 40 years’ engine service with Missouri Pacific / Union Pacific} say that the '40 is much like EMD’s first winner, the GP7 - just an all-around GOOD design. GE has yet to build a comparable design, either in terms of durability OR reliability - emissions compliance and fast delivery simply don’t compare to say a FORTY YEAR service life. EMD’s first '40 is still turning in revenue miles daily for the CN {as IC #6071} - how many GE road units can say the same? {Hint: Don’t ask any Amtrak engineers about their GE’s, unless you’ve got lots of time, a strong stomach, and insensitive ears…}
One final thought - a forty-year service life also means a forty-year return on an investment, which is something the railroad “front offices” would also love!!! I’ve yet to hear the likes of Mr. Haverty, Mr. Donohue, or Mr. Mooman say anything bad about such an occurance!!![;)]
Actually the 50 Series had a few more problems than just electrical the 645 was right at the edge of the amount of power it could make. The oil return system instead of staying with the system they had used since the begining a steel line they went to a copper line and guess what it broke all the time and they had engine failures. Yes GE does not have its early U series around here in the US since it took them all in as trades however go to Brazil or South America and you will see TONS of them some 50 years old running everyday. Remeber that GE only has been in the US market on its own for 45 years and also most of the reman shops in the US and Canada are setup to redo EMD products. But GE traction motors have been used since electric locomotives came out.
