Engineer pay

[NKP_guy]

How is the pay for engineers determined?

Are they paid by the hour? The mile? By trips from Point A to Point B? How does an engineer get a raise? Are engineers at the end of their careers paid the same, or nearly so, as those who are new and/or younger engineers? Are “good” engineers paid more than “bad” engineers? Are engineers observed and given performance reviews?

How about days off? Do they get a certain number of sick days or personal days?

How much difference does a union railroad make? Are CSX or UP engineers paid considerably more than non-union short-line engineers?

What’s the story on overtime?

[rrnut282]

[:-,]Anybody have a couple of hours to answer this?

[NKP_guy]

Anybody have a couple of hours to answer this?

LOL Point taken! [:D]

[tree68]

Anybody have a couple of hours to answer this?

Simple. Yes. [}:)]

[schlimm]

How is the pay for engineers determined?

Are they paid by the hour? The mile? By trips from Point A to Point B? How does an engineer get a raise? Are engineers at the end of their careers paid the same, or nearly so, as those who are new and/or younger engineers? Are “good” engineers paid more than “bad” engineers? Are engineers observed and given performance reviews?

How about days off? Do they get a certain number of sick days or personal days?

How much difference does a union railroad make? Are CSX or UP engineers paid considerably more than non-union short-line engineers?

What’s the story on overtime?

Good luck with all that!!

[PJS1]

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Occupational Employment and Wages, May 2016, 53-4011 Locomotive Engineers, there were 39,900 locomotive engineers in the U.S.

Subject to statistical sampling errors, the average hourly wage for a locomotive engineer was $29.34 and the average annual wage was $61,020. At the 10^th percentile, the average hourly wage was $20.06, and the average annual wage was $41,720. At the 50^th percentile the average hourly wage was $27.73, and the average annual wage was $57,670. At the 90^th percentile, the average hourly wage was $41.01, and the average annual wage was $85,290.

Most locomotive engineers in 2015 or 2016 probably received some benefits, i.e. health insurance, pension allowances, etc. in addition to their base wages. These can add as much as 25 to 40 percent of the base wage to the total compensation package.

The annual wages were determined by multiplying the average hourly wage by roughly 2,080 hours. Clearly, engineers that accumulate significant overtime hours would earn more; those that did not get 2,080 hours of work would earn less.

It is probably reasonable to assume that the engineers with the Class I carriers, who are able to negotiate their wages through a strong bargaining unit, had wages near the high end of the distribution, whereas those working for small, regional carriers, that may not be represented by a bargaining unit, had wages below the 50^th percentile.

The statistics are derived from statistical sampling, whic

[jeffhergert]

Pay by the mile or the hour depends on where (railroad and/or assignment) you are working. For some class ones, regionals and most non-union railroads pay is figured by the hour for all jobs. For example, on CN and CP (US lines) they have gone to an hourly payrate (around $45 +/- hr, overtime after 10hrs) in exchange for eliminating most work rule restrictions. Other railroads still pay on a miliage basis for through and most local freights. Switch engines pay by the hour. Some that pay by the mile have gone to a trip rate. Which is a set rate of miles for a particular run. When setting up the rates, they figured in (by averaging over a checking period) certain arbitrary payments like terminal delay, etc.

Unionized engineers get a raise when the contract calls for it. Non-unionized engineers get one when the company feels like it. All things being equal (and I realize they usually aren’t) the amount of money you can make at a particular point in a career depends on the assignments you can work. Unionized ones will have a seniority system. Others may or may not. Seniority means, for those that have it, you work jobs that pay a lot, or maybe don’t pay so much but have time off. Yard jobs pay the least but have days off. Road jobs pay more but you might be away from home every other night. For those that don’t have much seniority, you get what no one older (in seniority) than you wants. Although that doesn’t always mean the least desirable jobs pay the least. Sometimes there are other considerations why a higher paying assigments goes to low seniority.

You better believe engineers are observed and reviewed. For example anytime a knuckle or drawbar breaks, the engine’s event recorder gets downloaded to see if human error is the fault. Newer engines now can be downloaded in real time. And coming to an engine near you, inward facing cameras. So far, the inw

[CMStPnP]

Off topic but the thing that really turned me off on a career in Railroading way back when I was a teenager deciding on direction in life. Was how similiar it was to being in the military, the caps on pay, and the adversarial relationship between management and employee…and most of all the frequent job layoffs at the time (late 1970’s) and the general instability of employment.

No thanks…not for me.

[NKP_guy]

Sincere thanks to jeffhergert and JPS1 for their informative answers to my questions.

I’m mildly surprised to find that top pay is not quite as high as I imagined it to be, considering all the responsibilities engineers have, to say nothing of all the rules they have to learn.

The schedule must be difficult to adjust to, what with all those hours, days and nights, days off, etc., so it’s good to learn some railroads are trying other ways of scheduling work times.

I’ve never understood the way some companies, such as steel mills, scheduled workers for rotating shifts: one week day turn, next week afternoon turn, next week nights, and the following week’s day turn was preceeded by the last night turn; in other words, once a month you had to work a 16 hour day! What on earth could be the purpose of such scheduling except the “misery loves company” theory? And why would unions agree to such man-killing (and family life-killing) scheduling?

You men who work under these conditions have my respect, and your families have my sympathy.

I drew back from railroading because of the crazy hours and because I had heard that railroaders belittled those in their ranks who were railfans. Railroading seems not to have suffered because of my decision.

[zugmann]

If my only choice would be road assignments, I doubt I’d still be on the railroad.

I quickly found myself a little industrial/local yard, and that’s where I mostly worked (barring a few months last year when a new crew assignment system went into place and I was forced away a bit). Mostly M-F work, but also mostly night work. To be honest, I don’t mind nights. While I occasionally can hold daylight assignments, night seems to be where I end up most of the time. But I’ve been outside and seen enough sunrises and sunsets that some would be jealous of.

That’s the beauty (benefit?) of railroad work. You aren’t stuck in one place forever if you don’t want it. Now as an engineer - my seniority is next to bottom here, but even the worst engineer job is better than pounding the ground. (not that I hated ground work, I just did it enough for my tastes. Plus I like that right-hand seat).

The job is what you make of it. Some guys do nothing but female dog& moan 24/7. Give them a $100 bill and they’d complain that it was wrinkled. I try to not take stuff too seriously (surprised… aren’t you?) and have a little fun. Granted, my railfanning anymore consists of mostly this site anymore (lucky you. Sorry). I have other hobbies that took over. For example, I do have my tickets to Otakon in Washington DC in a month or so.

Does the job pay ok? It does for me and my modest lifestyle. Is it the place to go if you want to be rich? Nah. Do I want to do this another 30 years? I really don’t want to, to be honest. But could I? Probably. If there’s still engineers in 30 years, that is. Who knows.

[Electroliner_1935]

Speaking of working, I recommend a new book out. Author is Finn Murphy. Title is “LONG HAUL A truckers tales of life on the road”

It is an easy read of a man who quit collage and became a moving van driver. He says they are called bedbugs. While it is not a railroad story, it is a different life than a factory worker’s or many others. Perhaps Shadow can give us her thoughts about it.

Another question for Jeff. Is there any base pay for Engineers that they are guaranteed. If a territory has too many engineers for the current number of trains operated, the period between calls could be long and thus the income low. Boom time when more trains need to be crewed and not enough engineers available means high income but burn out. So I guess the question is how do railroads adjust the rosters? And how variable is the income?

[zugmann]

Another question for Jeff. Is there any base pay for Engineers that they are guaranteed.

Zug is not Jeff, but our extra lists are guaranteed. They also get 2 rest days per 6 day cycle. But if they start paying too much out in guarantee, they cut the list (means reducing the number of people on that list). If they need more engineers - they add to it. Our jobs are awarded weekly, so they can adjust it pretty frequently if they want.

[jeffhergert]

Speaking of working, I recommend a new book out. Author is Finn Murphy. Title is “LONG HAUL A truckers tales of life on the road”

It is an easy read of a man who quit collage and became a moving van driver. He says they are called bedbugs. While it is not a railroad story, it is a different life than a factory worker’s or many others. Perhaps Shadow can give us her thoughts about it.

Another question for Jeff. Is there any base pay for Engineers that they are guaranteed. If a territory has too many engineers for the current number of trains operated, the period between calls could be long and thus the income low. Boom time when more trains need to be crewed and not enough engineers available means high income but burn out. So I guess the question is how do railroads adjust the rosters? And how variable is the income?

Like Zug, our extra boards are the only engineer boards that have a guarantee. Ours however, don’t have days off. (We did once for a trial period, but the company pulled out of it.)

Traditionally the boards, both pool and extra, were governed by how many miles each turn was making. While the miliage range might vary slightly (I have a few old agreement books from different railroads) most were in the range of a low of 3200 miles to a high of 3800 miles a month for freight. If the average miliage dropped below 3200, turns would be cut. If miliage was over 3800, turns were to be added. They used to require that once a person made the maximum miliage that they were to be marked off for the rest of the month. (Kind of like the current cap in hours.) &n

[Shadow_the_Cats_owne]

I’m not a driver here so I had to ask my drivers what they actually thought of that question along with my husband. My husband a huge introvert flat out said he would do it again in a heartbeat so I wouldn’t have to work as hard as I do. What can I say even as sick as he is that man is still balls to the wall about getting crap done and doing it right the first time must have come from his father his mom is nothing like that.

My drivers out of the 40 that responded to the fleet wide question I asked which was would you do this again if you could based on current regulations we are enduring 30 said Yes 5 said Hell No and the last 5 said just marking time til I retire. Those 30 that answered like they did are the top runners in our company and we ask it is done without having to hound them. The 5 that said no well we to make sure they get the loads done in a decent timeframe we put them on a dedicated run back and forth between the yard and a smaller town in Upstate NY that is drop and hook on both sides however they make decent money on their 3300 miles a week. The last 5 are what my hubby would be now Old timer drivers yeah if my husband was still out there he would have 24 years now and are just marking time until they can punch the clock and retire. They are all putting their last kids thru college one has one in Med school and another has 1 that even though dad doesn’t what her to she is going to follow dad into the industry.

The oldtimers and those that love it call it a lifestyle and like being a railroader it is your all over the place all the time sleeping in different cities and states from time to time dealing with delays customers and yes Idiots in the office while being left alone to get on down the line or road. Those that love it wouldn’t do anything else those that are in it for a job see the money and go it is worth the BS those that hate it wash out and the same thing happens in

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I’ve never understood the way some companies, such as steel mills, scheduled workers for rotating shifts: one week day turn, next week afternoon turn, next week nights, and the following week’s day turn was preceeded by the last night turn; in other words, once a month you had to work a 16 hour day! What on earth could be the purpose of such scheduling except the “misery loves company” theory? And why would unions agree to such man-killing (and family life-killing) scheduling?

Back in our college days, my brother had a steel mill job that had him working a swing shift: 7 days on Midnight-8:00, 4 days off, 7 days on 4:00-Midnight, 2 days off, 7 days on 8:00-4:00, 1 day off and back to the beginning. Note that this guarantees one day of overtime on each cycle. Also note that there isn’t a guaranteed 16-hour day in this cycle. It wasn’t easy but it was predictable and it was equitable, first-level supervisory also worked a swing shift.

[schlimm]

NKP guy

I’ve never understood the way some companies, such as steel mills, scheduled workers for rotating shifts: one week day turn, next week afternoon turn, next week nights, and the following week’s day turn was preceeded by the last night turn; in other words, once a month you had to work a 16 hour day! What on earth could be the purpose of such scheduling except the “misery loves company” theory? And why would unions agree to such man-killing (and family life-killing) scheduling?

Back in our college days, my brother had a steel mill job that had him working a swing shift: 7 days on Midnight-8:00, 4 days off, 7 days on 4:00-Midnight, 2 days off, 7 days on 8:00-4:00, 1 day off and back to the beginning. Note that this guarantees one day of overtime on each cycle. Also note that there isn’t a guaranteed 16-hour day in this cycle. It wasn’t easy but it was predictable and it was equitable, first-level supervisory also worked a swing shift.

Sounds like another of those “We do it this way because we’re different and this is the way we’ve always done it.”

[BaltACD]

CSSHEGEWISCH

NKP guy

I’ve never understood the way some companies, such as steel mills, scheduled workers for rotating shifts: one week day turn, next week afternoon turn, next week nights, and the following week’s day turn was preceeded by the last night turn; in other words, once a month you had to work a 16 hour day! What on earth could be the purpose of such scheduling except the “misery loves company” theory? And why would unions agree to such man-killing (and family life-killing) scheduling?

Back in our college days, my brother had a steel mill job that had him working a swing shift: 7 days on Midnight-8:00, 4 days off, 7 days on 4:00-Midnight, 2 days off, 7 days on 8:00-4:00, 1 day off and back to the beginning. Note that this guarantees one day of overtime on each cycle. Also note that there isn’t a guaranteed 16-hour day in this cycle. It wasn’t easy but it was predictable and it was equitable, first-level supervisory also worked a swing shift.

Sounds like another of those “We do it this way because we’re different and this is the way we’ve always done it.”

Not really! Work schedules evolve because of what companies and employees feel work best for them - for whatever reasons each of the parties feel are best for their own self interest.

One place I worked there was a Yardmaster’s relief job (working regular jobs rest days) that workd 3rd Trick Mon-T

[jeffhergert]

The ‘Local Agreement’ for one territory I worked was written so that T&E employees were only REQUIRED to be sent to their home terminal after having been away from home 14 days. That agreement was subsequently changed, but it leaves me wondering what the local T&E Union leaders were thinking when the negotiated/agreed to such a contract provision.

Possibly it was negotiated with the thought (by the union leaders) that it would only apply to those forced to outlying jobs. Work train service for example. However, the wording allowed the company to interpret it to include ALL T&E people.

Our agreements allow us when going on duty at the AFHT to be turned back once and tied up there. We automatically place first out (but not rested) on the board. The next time on duty we have to be tied up back at our home terminal. In practice, we rarely tie back up a second time away from home anymore. If we have a bad day and need to be relieved on HOS, even if we’re closer to the AFHT we usually get cabbed home.

Jeff

[PJS1]

Not really! Work schedules evolve because of what companies and employees feel work best for them

At most of the lignite mine sites in east Texas the bargaining unit employees work 12 on and 12 off shifts for four days follow by four to five days off. It is what the employees negotiated.

Management was reluctant to agree to the arrangement because of safety concerns, but they proved to be unfounded. Accidents went down following implementation of the 12 on and 12 off scheduling.

[Buslist]

BaltACD
Not really! Work schedules evolve because of what companies and employees feel work best for them

At most of the lignite mine sites in east Texas the bargaining unit employees work 12 on and 12 off shifts for four days follow by four to five days off. It is what the employees negotiated.

Management was reluctant to agree to the arrangement because of safety concerns, but they proved to be unfounded. Accidents went down following implementation of the 12 on and 12 off scheduling.

Nurses at the nearby hospital have moved to a similar schedule, they like it!