I am considering purchasing the Fast Tracks jig and making my own turnouts and wonder if they are really worth the money. I am working on building a new larger layout and will have several (15 or more) turnouts and am not happy with Atlas although most of what I have are the Snap Switches. I have done some research here and am led to believe that once you get the hang of building them, they are a better turnout than what you can buy, and are cheaper in the long run.
Some questions I have are, 1. what kind of frogs do they use, metal or plastic? 2. What kind of turnout control will work on them? 3. I am considering getting the #6 turnout and what is the approxmate radius for the #6?
I am wanting to get away from anything less than a 22’’ radius, preferable 24’’
I know this has been covered here several times but I would like some final info before I break down and spend the money. Thanks. Mike
a code 83 #6 turnout jig is $190 (does that include a supply of rail and ties ?). they claim the break even point is 10 turnouts . i think that’s slightly optimistic given that i easily found walthers code 83 #6 turnouts for slightly over $16 from an internet dealer . the same dealer has the central valley curvable code 83 #6 kit for just over $10 , making the break even point closer to 20 turnouts . it really depends on how much you want to build your own turnouts , and how many you need to do
now that i’ve made sort of a case against Fast Tracks i must say that everyone who has posted here about using them has been very enthusiastic about the product , and the photos of their track work has been gorgeous . sometimes we just have to decide that cost isn’t the most important factor in making a decision
In terms of quality, you cannot compare Fasttracks with any other turnout line. There is no comparrision. They are of better quality, better appearance, have better rolling characteristics, and actually conform to NMRA standards (which cant be said of any other turnout line). And they also give you the option of different rail sizes…even down to CD55 in HO.
Get a hold of jktrains. I believe he uses what you are takling about. He showed me the jig a few months back and it looks like even a pilot (me) could handle making one.
As Mike stated, I’ve had the FastTracks jig for a while now. David’s first post answers your basic questions about frogs, and specs on the turnouts. The question of “Are they worth it?” is more personal. Obviously, if you are only going to be building one or two turnouts, then no, its not worth it. If you’re building a dozen or more, than you’re in the gray area. As Ernie stated, there are somethings that the cost/breakeven equation can’t quantify. I’ll agree with David that the FastTrack turnout, when properly built, is probably the best turnout out there. They are exactly in gauge with smooth rolling characteristic. The all metal frog is superior to the frog on say an Atlas or even a Walthers turnout. So, if you’re going to be building a 12-20 turnouts, are they worth it? IMO, yes, they may cost a little more than say a Walthers, but they are better turnout - closer tolerance frog, continous point rails, better electrical characteristics.
How long does it typically take to construct a turnout with this jig. (Assuming your through the learning curve and have the hang of it) I am designing an expansion to my layout. I already have the switches for Phase II but for Phase III Im going to need like 40 switches between the two yards alone. Obviously It sounds if I need that many switches the Fast Track Jig is a money saver, But how much time will it take to make that many?
That price is for the kit which includes everything but rail for 5 turnouts. After that, you only need ties and rail (and a little solder and glue). Personally, I think their quick sticks ties are a little pricey, but then the real reason for doing your own is to get a better turnout so it’s up to you.
Getting a Fast Tracks jig for one or two turnouts is not really worth the money. You’ll need to be building many turnouts of that size so the jigs are cost effective.
While the turnout you get with a Fast Tracks jig is operationally superior to any commercial turnout, from a visual perspective a Fast Tracks jig built turnout is rather spartan, lacking any tie plate or spikehead detail. I find they stand out visually from the MicroEngineering flex track I use, so I have come up with an alternative “jig” method that gives me great looking turnouts that are also operationally superior (this only works for HO, however).
I purchase a Central Valley Turnout tie kit from Proto87 Stores for $4 and remove some of the ties, replace them with PC ties, and solder the rails down, using the rail slots in the CVT tie kit as a guide – the turnout goes together fast because the rail slots auto-gage everything. With a little care, I can solder down the rails and get a turnout that both looks great and runs great. I do use the Fast Tracks point filing jig and their frog point soldering jig.
In effect, you get a jig for $4 and get an excellent turnout in the process. I have the complete step-by-step process of building these turnouts documented on my layout web site with photos. Here’s a couple pictures of the final turnout (#6 left, Code 83):
Once you’re past the learning curve, construction time is probably in the 30-45 minute range. There will always be a bit filing and test fitting of things like the point rails, stock rails and frog. These things just take time, but once you’ve built a few you’ll be more comfortable with the mark and how much you need to file to get things to fit.
In my case, I have a good sized yard to be built using #5 turnouts. Walthers makes a #5, but their availability at times can be spotty. Instead of having that hold things up, I can build them when needed, not when available, and they operate smoother, which will be important in the yard or anywhere on the layout.
Joe, your hybrid turnouts look great. How many have you built this way? I’ve enjoyed reading your demonstration on making them like this. They do appear to take quite a bit of time, however. I’d be interested to know how long they take.
Thanks for all the quick replies, makes me want to get one even more. I noticed they are for using the ME code 100 track, I was planning on using Atlas code 100 flex track, will the Atlas track hook up with the Fast Track turnouts OK or is there something elece I need to do or use?
I did watch the video on the Fast Track web site and it looks fairly simple, I do not think I would have any trouble with building them once I am thru the learning curve. I stated in the opening post I would need 15 or more, I hadn’t considered a yard, I might need closer to 25 of them or more.
If something doesn’t change before Monday, I will probley place an order.
Once you’ve built a few of these and got the process down, they come together pretty fast – in about an hour. Using the Fast Tracks filing and point soldering jigs speeds up things a lot, and having auto-gage slots for the rails also speeds the process greatly. Once you get some practice you can make solder joints that take very little cleanup.
If you’re really into fast construction, you can get yourself a couple extra tie kits (at $4 each, why not) and just run them into the ground as jigs. That way you don’t have to worry about heat sinks on both sides of solder joints (I use sprung tweezers) – so you melt the ties on each side of the joint a little – no biggie.
If you want to add extra details (guard rail and point bracing, tie plates and spikeheads on the PC ties), that can take another 30-45 minutes – it just depends on how anal you are about track details.
I can tell you this approach goes way faster than a cut-and-fit handlaid turnout. Those take me 4-6 hours with all the measuring, cutting, filing, measuring, spiking, measuring, and adjusting. With one of these “jig” jobs, it’s just pedal to the metal and let all the tools control things. I do measure the frog area and points area as a double check, but that’s quick compared to all the gauge-checking and measuring needed on the jig-less process.
If you need a lot of turnouts, the Fast Tracks method takes a little too much time per unit if you make them one by one. I have completed my first #8 Code 83 turnout, and it is far better than any other ready made that I have ever used. Based on my manufacturing background, and the genius of Eli Whitney and Samuel Colt, the answer is to pre manufacture the parts in quantity and then assembly takes only a few minutes each for each turnout. I plan to make 20 sets of parts prior to assmbly to result in 5 left hand and 5 right hand turnouts for each process.
Measure the guard rail length, snip, snip, snip and snip. Twenty pieces in a few minutes, bend in the jigs and set them aside. Next the frog point rails, Cut all to length, file in the fixture, and set aside for soldering. Solder the 10 sets, and set them aside. Need I continue? The time that it takes to make just one is due to the inefficiency of lost motion doing each thing separately. For those who are not aware of effciency, study Gilbreth, the father of time and motion study. The more wasted motion, the longer the time. You pick up a length of rail once, the rail cutter only once. You have just saved 18 motions, and that is just for the guard rails. Multiply that by all of the other individual parts and you wil see a vast improvement in the overall efficiency of assembly.
First thing - I have been hand-laying specialwork without jigs for longer than the jigmaker has been in business, so I have never been tempted to try the product.
It is not necessary to use jigs to build hand-laid turnouts, especially turnouts which are going to be curved or of other odd geometry to suit the requirements of a particular track design. In my own work, I have a lot of curved turnouts. I once straightened out the frog and closure rails of one removed from a dismantled layout and discovered it was a #8.4 (6.8 degree frog angle.) You aren’t likely to find that in any turnout dimension table! Nor are you likely to file its parts with a filing gauge or jig meant for a different frog angle.
Over the years I have developed a point design that does not require notched stock rails. To the best of my knowledge, nobody makes a jig for this design.
Admittedly, making raw-rail turnouts in jigs will give the inexperienced builder a leg up on the process - in the same way that training wheels are helpful to a novice bicycle rider. From my vantage point, they are just as dimensionally restrictive as the commercial products I found unsatisfactory for my requirements.
Just my [2c]. Other opinions are sure to differ.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with hand-laid puzzle palace specialwork)
I hear you talk alot about you handlaying methods and skills, but I’m still waiting to see some picture or evidence that these methods work as well as you say. Please enlighten us with some pics of your work. I was taught how to handbuild turnouts over 25 years ago by a master craftsman. He used to build both point turnouts and stub turnouts. I recall a 3 way stub turnout he built that was machine thrown. An amazing work of art when consider the precision needed to have it index and stop at three different locations without the luxury of having a stock rail for the points to rest against. If you’ve figured out a better mousetrap, then share some pics and show us how its done.
The reason they go with ME rail is consistent results. They found the ME product has less variation over time than other brands.
You should be able to connect the two rail brands together, but there may be some slack at the joint because of different profiles. FastTracks used to offer jigs for Atlas rail, but maybe most people were not interested in that brand of rail.
As to the finished product, it’s hard to find anything better. They work well, better than commercial turnouts.
The biggest argument against the FastTracks jig and tools always seems to be cost. That issue seems to the only one in the argument too. The jig and tools let you make a beautiful, standards compliant turnout that looks good and performs even better, in less than an hour. Even if you’ve never handlaid a turnout before.
As to other things, you need a couple of files, a coarse one will chew away metal quick, and a finer one to finish the job. Get new ones, as Tim Warris points out. Plus a good hot soldering iron, with a chisel tip. Plus some flux (I recommend Rosin Flux, not acid. You’re not soldering pipes.)
I use their jigs in Nscale in code 55 with a number “4” number “6” and a number “8” frog.
I also have a curved jig of a “8” curved turnout.
They are far the best turnout I ever see in the all market.
Tolerance are very tight in Nscale and even I have some troubles in the first ones I buids, now I can produce a smooth turnout with the best rolling capabilities I ever see in Nscale and particulary when working with code 55 track.
Yes the jigs are quite expensive but if you plan to make a great use of turnouts and a lot of switching like me, they are the best.
For great producing, You can prepare a lot of pieces in series like gardrails, frog, snip rails… and construct your turnouts with these already pieces. I can produce a number “6” in something like 40 minutes.
I am constructing a big yard with a ladder of 13 number “6” turnouts and was able to make one ladder in a good day of work (ballasting and ties placing not included).
I use my own jig for placing ties because of price and avaibility of the Fasttrack laser cut ties. I power my turnout with Hankcraft motor display ( same as Switchmaster motors).
When a car run trought one of these turnouts he does’nt move more than when he his rolling on straight track; a big change from the Peco code 55 track I was using before.
In conclusion, if you want a perfect turnout and a good quantities of them, they are far the best turnout especialy in Nscale. www.handlaidtrack.com
WOW ! I only watched the first 20 minutes of the video making a #5 turnout and I gotta say you have to be pretty hard core to go to that length in building a layout. My hats off to you guys here that do this. I think I’ll just keep buying the prefab versions, I know I don’t have the patience needed for doing that.
‘Hard core’? If you were building these turnouts without a jig or frog/point forming tool, then it would be hardcore. Look at what Jeff has accomplished.
