Don’t let anyone tell you a Jubilee couldn’t pull much! More common on the prairies freight here we see Extra 2929 West bound for Smiths Falls with 60 cars! Might have been slippery getting underway but she made it.
Dorval, Quebec April 5, 1958 Ron Ritchie/Ron Visockis digital restoration
2929 at the Glen. 8/29/1958 Wm.Raia/Joseph Testagrose Collection
This locomotive was one on the many collected by F.Nelson Blount for his Steamtown USA in Vermont. It never operated. Now at Steamtown National Historic Site in Scranton, PA in a sad state of neglect.
I for one never thought a “Jubilee” couldn’t get the job done, if that was the case they wouldn’t have lived very long. Just because the Reading couldn’t make a 4-4-4 work doesn’t mean no-one else could.
Slippery? They were probably just like the Pennsy’s T1, once head-end crews knew what to expect and how to handle 'em they were just fine.
This reminds me a bit of the end of a caption in Trains describing the Wilmington electric shop switcher, ‘wouldn’t two of these make a great engine?’ The smaller Jubilees made a fine engine, but things would have been ever so much better with one little additional driver pair…
The Reading engine was a 4-4-2 with entirely the wrong kind of truck substituted. It was the wrong answer to a question Reading had already far more compellingly answered. Now, had the firebox been extended to take full advantage of the two axles, and correct steering (at the rear of a Bissel truck being best) been applied to those axles, you’d have had the best engine thus far for the Atlantic City express traffic (fastest in the world) … but the immediate thing that would occur to you, as it actually did on the Pennsy shortly before the P&R experiment, that an extra driving axle and better balance would give you a far better locomotive with minimal effective drawbacks…
Sure, they could pull lots on the level. There were some wartime anecdotes involving a relatively high-drivered SP Atlantic, very far from new, successfully operating loaded main trains with upward of 21 cars (!) – of course you had to know they used a trailing-truck booster for starting, making them the moral equivalent of a 4-6-0 at starting and low speed, and the terrain was largely flat. Remember that my comment on their being relatively ‘slippery’ involved the context of running out of Scranton on excursions heavily occupied enough to pay for them and the pro rata cost of restoring the Jubilee.
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Slippery? They were probably just like the Pennsy’s T1, once head-end crews knew
Steam trains ridden moreo than once, in chronological order: New Haven - Concord, NH., NYNH&H (electric to and from NYC) and B&M, interchange at Worcester. (Springfield one time)
Empire State Express, Harmon - Detroit, Hudsons
Suncook Valley mixed: Concord - Pittsfield, NH
New Haven (electric to and from NY) - Boston, I-4 Pacifics or I-5 Hudsons
New York and Long Branch, South Amboy (electric to and from NY) or Jersey City - Red Bank or Little Silver, CNJ camelback 4-6-0s or K4s.
Grand Trunk Western, Chicago - Pontiac or Bloomfield Hills via Duramd, 4-8-4s and Pacifics
D&RGW narrow gauge, Alamosa - Silverton via Durango, Chircago Railroad Club Morie Kliebolt Specials
UP Rawlins - Cheyenne 844/8444, UP secials and last City of LA.
Very nice Dave. I’m sure we are all quite envious of your far and wide journeys when trains were still very important and service was a matter of company pride. Many of us here may have caught the final acts of it all, but you were there for the whole show.
I think a trip on the ‘just after the war’ Milwaukee heavyweight Olympian would be quite the experience.
The original post asked for five favorites, and did not specify that they should still exist. Some responses have focused on five existing locos that should get better treatment in preservation.
If we’re talking about five existing locos that deserve a better fate, I would start with NKP/AC&Y/D&MM 4-6-0 number 304 at Steamtown. I seriously doubt that Steamtown will ever have the resources or will to do anything to preserve this loco, and it seems sensible to follow the example of the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in regard to NKP 757, and turn her over to somebody who will treat her right. Age of Steam Roundhouse in Sugarcreek, Ohio would probably give her a great home. Next on the list is the entire roster of the East Broad Top. I’m not sure what other engines to add, but there are lots of candidates.
My all-time list is too big, so I’ll list my all-time favorite extinct locos.
Erie Berkshire, any class.
Erie K-5 Pacific.
B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4.
B&O S-1 2-10-2.
PRR J1 2-10-4.
Ask me on a different day, and you would probably get a different list.
Great choices, especially the Erie Berkshire and the K-5.
Those Berkshires made the modern Erie, and those K-5’s were so good the Erie never bothered to upgrade to a Hudson or Northern type for long-range passenger work.
Mind you, if you didn’t have to be in Chicago yesterday the “Erie Limited” was a fine way to go. Not competing with the NYC or the PRR for speed the Erie didn’t need anything more than a Pacific type anyway.
I am an Erie fan from way back, and a Lackawanna fan too although some of their approach to Pacifics, specifically ‘streamlining’ is not exactly the sense of ‘borne aloft on eagles’ wings’ that might have been meant.
But there are at least two Pacific classes I prefer to the K-5, one of which we still have with us and under restoration to operation to boot. The first is the ‘last 5’ K6b engines built for the B&A (the K6a from Brooks being lovely from the side, but hopeless in front!), and the second of course is B&M 3713, probably the most technically advanced Pacific built here. (I would note that with those syphons it might have been better with a four-wheel trailing truck like the MEC class D … but I’m not going to second-guess Lima near the height of their game).
If it helps any: I actually started learning the Korean language a few years ago with the goal of tracking down the Erie Pacific we sent over there …
Well good luck to you! While the general consensus is that Erie K1 is gone, no-one seems to really know for certain or is willing to bet their lives on it.
My own thought is it was probably turned into Hyundais or Kias a long time ago, but I sure hope I’m wrong!
Of course, finding it is one thing, getting it out of the country would be another, you know, that whole “National Treasure” thing. On the other hand, I’ve heard the Koreans are a very reasonable and decent people, so maybe they’d be willing to talk a deal and there’d be no “baksheesh” problems.
No doubt that the 757 would be treated well here in Ohio, but with the passing of Jerry Joe Jacobson I wonder how many new procurements there will be. At least in the immediate future.
I have no inside track at Age of Steam. However, the family and board of directors have said they intend to continue Jerry Joe Jacobson’s legacy. Just a couple weeks ago, they acquired a fireless 0-4-0 because they believed it would fill a gap in the collection. It is true that the roundhouse is nearly full now, so I am sure any future acquisitions would come after careful consideration. Steamtown’s 4-6-0 number 304 needs a new home that has adequate shop/restoration facilities as well as good prospects for future preservation. The facility at Sugarcreek fills all those requirements, and is geographically located near enough to the NKP and AC&Y that few would question the appropriateness of the location.
When I posted my comments a few days ago, I should have added two more threatened engines: B&LE 2-10-4 643, and W&LE 0-6-0 3960.
I am sure Penny knows, but I am afraid somebody might be confused by something in her post. Age of Steam has NKP 763. As much as Jerry loved NKP Berkshires, I doubt that they would want or need another in Sugarcreek. NKP 757 is going to the Mad River & NKP Museum in Bellevue.
If you want five favorite steam locomotives of all time, here is my list.
1.Rutland 4-8-2
N & W 4-8-0
CP 4-4-4
Santa Fe 2-10-4
N & W final 0-8-0’ s
These last were fine looking modern switchers besides being the last steam built in the US. I thought I read somewhere that Baldwin built a steam locomotive for export in 1954, but I can’t recall where.
Of the five, right now the only one I could ride behind would be 2.
Responding to Firelock and the Erie Limited posting. Never rode long-distance Erie trains in steam, just suburban trains and one round-trip on camp specials to Port Jervice. All my steam trips on the Erie were in Stillwell coaches, and the power was (I think) always a Pacific. Later, as an acoustical consultant, I did use the Eire overnight NY - Corning, NY, and return, but diesels had long replaced steam.
Once, when in the BBN NY office on a special project, and expected to return to the BBN Downers Grove, IL office, and not yet having my return ticket, and this after the Erie-DL&W merger, I opted for the Lake Cities. Very glad I did. I got to see the western part of the territory the Erie served, enjoyed the trip, and was saddened when this last Hoboken - Chciago train came off. The sleeper went only as far as Youngstown, the diner to Huntington. but I thoroughly enjoyed the trip. I was amazed how straight and fast the Erie’s approach to Chicago was comopard to some other eastern railroads. Spent a lot of time on the rear platform without any crew-member complaining.
Hope to find some negatives taken on that Hoboken - Chicago trip.
Well David, you did all right, you have a lot of people out there turning green with envy!
I would have loved to have ridden Erie Stillwells with a Pacific up front. They sound like just the basic commuter runs, but I’ll bet behind steam they weren’t just transportation, they were a ride!
I’ve been trying to find an on-line photo of an Erie K1 in color, complete with the Russian iron boiler jacket and an “Order Of The Red Spot” number board for all to enjoy, but so far no luck. But I’ll keep trying!
