Can a 2o ft. intermodal shipping container be filled at a standard shipping dock with a forklift truck? I would assume that it is done all the time, but I’ve never seen it in person. We are shipping bales of scrap oversees and we cannot fill a 40 ft. container all the way without going over the weight limit. So I’m considering trying to use 20 ft. containers. Thanks Rich
Yes, a 20’ box loads the same as a 40 or larger. You might see some 20’s running around w/ their sliders slid back, beyond the rear doors. That telescopes in, so that the rear bumper lines up w/ the doors, so you can back in, tight to the dock.
A 20’ container is going to have (more or less) half the capacity of a 40’ container. So if you’re running out of capacity on the 40’ boxes, you’ll do it in roughly half the time with the shorter boxes.
You wouldn’t be the first to run out of weight before you run out of room. Recall that when gons are substituted for ore cars (iron ore), they only load a small pile over each truck as the car would never hold the weight that would result from filling the car to the top.
Rich;
An issue might be the cube weight of the product being shipped. I have seen some grain/meal shippers stand the 20ft TEU on its fore end, fill them like a box. Seal the door openings with plastic sheeting, and lock the doors, and then place them for shipping on a road chassis. But remember the product must cube out before it weighs out to do the above.
If you pay attention to the Load Limits on containers - they are nearly the same - no matter if the container is 20 ft, 40 ft, 48 ft or 53 ft. The load limits for containers correspond to weight that is allowed on highways that these boxes also operate on.
Living near a port city, I am amazed at the contraptions that I see draying containers from the port. Seeing containers strapped to flat bed trailers makes me nervous every time I see one.
Well, they all have to be loaded and unloaded somehow . . . .
We are currently using a 45G1 High cube 40 ft. container and we run out of space at about the same time that we hit the weight limit. But I’m about to buy a new baling machine that will squeeze the bales 50 to 60 percent tighter and heavier. So now I will either have to ship a 40 ft. container that is 1/3 empty or ship a 20 ft. container that will under the maximum weight by about 4000 lbs. How much less does it cost to ship a 20ft. container vs. a 40ft. container? I don’t have any shipping experience. I am just buying the baler and I don’t want to make a stupid mistake. Thanks Rich
Welcome to the trades off’s of transportation!
Find a shipping line that’s hauling a lot of empty containers in the direction you want to go. Aside from the attractive ‘backhaul’ of your move to them - paying for what would otherwise be a non-revenue move, the boat won’t be close to max. load, thus they wouldn’t have any reason to charge you for displacing the weight of a 40ft. container loaded with higher-value manufactured goods (not that they won’t try, though . . . [:-^]
- Paul North.
There are a lot of variables. How much weight will the ocean carrier allow in a container,
also, how much weight will the railroad allow. ? If you are going a short distance and not going over
any state weigh scales you can take your chances, agree to pay the ticket. Contact your trucker and see what they say. They do it every day. Many areas allow overweight permits for steamship containers with an international bill of lading. They usually try to load the heavier boxes on the bottom of double stacks.
Chuck
To Rich, from a former railway marketing/sales exec: The answer to your first question re: loading is yes, as long as you’re dealing with a drayman who will be using the proper chassis. As to your second question: 1) First, confirm the ready, ongoing availability of 20’ containers in your area. Since they’re not nearly as numerous as 40’s and are used more for specific situations, it can be spotty. 2) Get two or three price quotes from brokers/carriers who are regularly moving reasonable volumes of ocean containers in your lane. You may get some savings, but don’t expect a 20’ rate to be half of a 40’ just because it’s smaller. Drayage cost is the same regardless of box size. Most container moves out of the US are backhauls, which means the ocean carrier is bringing all the boxes back overseas one way or another, empty or loaded. The only thing that drives up their cost (very marginally) is the weight of the load itself, regardless of which size box it’s loaded in. And for the railroads, 20’ boxes, especially heavily loaded ones, can be a pain because you need two to fill a well, they can’t be loaded on top, and two heavy 20’s may use up so much of a railcar’s weight capacity that you’re restricted as to what, if anything, you can stack on top. Good luck!
Yes. A container chassis for a 20’ container can allows the container to be slide back on the chassis so that the whole truck can stay within bridge / axle limitations. The loading of a 20’ container is the same as a 40’ otherwise. As a general rule 20’ containers tend to gross out weight wise before they cube out volume wise. From what I’ve seen as an example in a domestic 53’ trailer with a load of chemicals in drums all the drums will be floor loaded or palletized. In a 20’ container by way of contrast the same load will have the drums double stacked with a sheet of plywood or OSB board between the layers.
On many domestic trailers there is printed by the door on the side wall the description of the capicity of the trailer. I do not know if ocean containers have this or not. I would suspect that any freight forwarder (or NVOCC) can provide the info.
One other thing it may well be that your forwarder may be getting a better rate for a 40’ backhaul then for a 20’ container. One of the imbalances in the freight world is their is more freight going to the US from China and the far east then returning. Not knowing rate structures(a lot of ocean freight is on unregulated tarriff’s) it may be that it is cheaper to use a 40’ can because a shipping company is trying to return the container to asian ports.
With low value cargo’s like scrap bales a
[quote user=“narig01”]
Yes. A container chassis for a 20’ container can allows the container to be slide back on the chassis so that the whole truck can stay within bridge / axle limitations. The loading of a 20’ container is the same as a 40’ otherwise. As a general rule 20’ containers tend to gross out weight wise before they cube out volume wise. From what I’ve seen as an example in a domestic 53’ trailer with a load of chemicals in drums all the drums will be floor loaded or palletized. In a 20’ container by way of contrast the same load will have the drums double stacked with a sheet of plywood or OSB board between the layers.
On many domestic trailers there is printed by the door on the side wall the description of the capicity of the trailer. I do not know if ocean containers have this or not. I would suspect that any freight forwarder (or NVOCC) can provide the info.
One other thing it may well be that your forwarder may be getting a better rate for a 40’ backhaul then for a 20’ container. One of the imbalances in the freight world is their is more freight going to the US from China and the far east then returning. Not knowing rate structures(a lot of ocean freight is on unregulated tarriff’s) it may be that it is cheaper to use a 40’ can because a shipping company is trying to return the container to asian ports.
&nb
The one that has me always scratching my head…I see CSX, EMP, someone that’s got a whole herd of 53’ dark blue containers, and so many other companies on the trains going past my window.
But I have never, ever, seen any of these containers out on the road. They have to be going SOMEWHERE. You’d think I’d run into at least ONE of them out on their first mile or last mile trips. I’ve driven past some huge distribution centers (Wal-Mart, Kroger, etc) in my various travels, but never see any of the non-JB Hunt, UPS, Schneider containers out there. It baffles me.
They are out on the road. My experience is that they tend to do a lot more short haul work(under 100 miles). Kroger generally does not take a lot of drop trailers and are live unloads. Wal Mart is the opposite, they try to get as much drop as they can. Also the none of the railroads with the exception of NS/ Triple Crown has their own trucks pulling their trailers. Usually they are pulled by a drayage company from railhead to shipper / receiver.
One other item is that because of scheduling much of it is done at nite.
Rgds IGN
Rich,
What you have here is a classic capital investment problem. Right now you can get full weight in a 40 foot container and you will after you buy the baler, so there is no reason to buy the baler unless your per ton rate is lower using 20 foot containers than with 40 footers,
To make a case for the baler you must now the real rates in 20 and 40 foot containers AND how much weight you can put in each. I would not use this forum as a source for this information which is very market specific. Get rates and weight capacity from your transportation guy who should be in contact with your ocean carrier or broker. Once you have real rates and real capacities, then you can figure cost per ton both ways. Multiply savings per ton by tons per year to get savings per year then apply company capital investment requirements to your baler.
Recognize that rates are likely to change over time. Here again you need to talk to your transportation manager and find out what has happened in the past and what he thinks the future holds. Those rate changes are a major element of risk in your baler decision.
Mac McCulloch
MBA Finance, Former shortline marketing VP
Rich,
I overlooked a couple of important points in my previous post.
You need to quantify operating cost changes associated with the baler. I originally assumed, bad thing to do in a CAPEX project, that cost of power and wraping material would be negligable on a per ton basis. You need to confirm that. More importantly you need to figure out how the change will affect your loading cost. The fact that you are adding a trip, and a stop at the baler implies more labor and forklift hours to load, all else equal. You need to quantify and monetize that AND determine if loading bales will speed or slow your loading process so you know what total cost impact will be.
Last, you need to recognize that you are changing the nature of what you are selling and determine if that is a good thing or a bad thing. You will create a waste disposal issue on the other end. Is it a problem? If the baler uses plastic sheet or twine I would be doubly concerned since I know paper factorys absolutely need to keep plastic out of their process. I would talk to whoever sells your material and get him to OK your plan IN WRITING. Some uninvestigated objection from a customer could render your baler a big dust collector and have you looking for a job, so you need to protect yourself.
Mac McCulloch
I would like to thank all of you for the fantastic responses to my questions. I have had all of my questions answered along with a few that I did not even think to ask. My career has been in Tool and Die and Engineering. My only Railroad experience is as a Volunteer for our local Tourist Railroad. I don’t even know how I got selected to be the guy who has to buy a new baler. Your answers may keep me from an ‘Early Retirement’ Rich