Filosophy Phriday, Your Surrounding Area.

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

How far does your true to scale finishing go in either direction and why, if there is a why?

So you have meticulously built that perfect true to scale structure and set it on the layout, or made a scene that is hard to tell from the real thing. Then comes the area surrounding your masterpiece. How far do you extend the scene or as is the case for so many of us, how far can you extend the scene?

I remember returning to the hobby thinking of what I really wanted to copy from the real world and soon realized it would take a 300’ stretch to do that. My Sister thrilled that I was doing MRR again, remembering the hours spent with Dad running trains and creating our own little empire. She thought for sure a scale model of the Canadian Pacific Spiral Tunnels would be in the corner of the trainroom.[(-D] She was somewhat shocked when I told her a scale model of the Spiral Tunnels would take the entire lower floor of the house. The Spiral Tunnels are something I had to give up due to space constraints.[(-D]

There is no right or wrong here, but tell us about what is important when it comes to fine-scale modelling, the “must-do’s, must-have’s” in the margins around the perfect bit on the layout. How much real estate around your structure is required to make it stand out rather than just be part of the clutter?

Is the surrounding area or area of transition low or high priority for you? Having empty space between scenes helps people focus more on that super scene and makes them appreciate the detail of your work even more. Is less more?

I like the scrutiny the camera offers and the things on the layout I have photographed quickly show where the most improvements can be made which is usually the surrounding area. I know of the perfect scratch-built structure sitting on pink foam and yet another set into a perfect diorama that slides into the layout and everything else in between.

Tell us, show us, everything you have and

2

Brent, thanks for starting the conversation. [:)]

I think that for all of us, there’s a cost/benefit analysis of sorts that we do. Whether it’s being pressed for time, money, materials, or just mojo (it takes a lot of mojo and time to build a convincing, useful, fun, and enduring layout), we all have to define our own limits.

I don’t paint the fars sides of rails if I know a camera will never show them. I do finish all my structure kits, and I do paint them as well as my skills allow. Same for scenery. But, the further stuff is from my illusion-needing eyes, the less time and effort I spend on making stuff really ‘good’, or veridical.

I have only ever wanted to model, truly take a stab at realism, with my second layout that has all those photos posted over the years…now gone 9 years. [:(] I tried to model that rock cut along Horseshoe Curve as best I could, the one often seen in proto photos.

Unfortunately, I also wanted a rock tunnel portal, and that’s where it ended up. I fly by the seat of me pants.

3

Well, I am between layouts, getting ready to start the next one soon.

A few of my self imposed standards include things like close coupling and working/touching diaphragms on passenger cars - even if those passenger cars are selectively compressed freelanced cars.

On the topic of scenery, I have never been motivated to build scenes of real places.

But I work hard at capturing the features and flavor of the region I model.

I tried building a “shelf” type layout last time around. It was also multi deck.

By the time some of it was running I knew I was not going to be happy with the scenery.

So for the new layout I have gone back to the more traditional one scenic level and much deeper scenery. Most of the layout will be 3-4 feet deep, some places even deeper, to allow full developement of scenery that tells more of a story than just the 80’ either side of the tracks.

I have a long list of “signature” scenes I intend to build.

Hard to do that on a two foot deep shelf…

More later,

Sheldon

4

I’ve built my layout in phases, completing one before starting the next. I seldom had periods of Plywood Prairie between scenes. The phases have always been small enough to complete a scene and tie it pretty completely to the previously completed scene without a gap.

The pink foam was always in the corners awaiting completion.

5

Brent, you do realize you have asked a rarther complex question.

That’s why I only gave a preliminary reply at first, I wanted to think about your questions a bit more.

So, I’m starting my new layout, I have spent about 18 months off and on working on the track plan. Hopefully you have taken a look at in my thread on the subject where the plan is now posted.

As I said above, I make no effort to copy actual scenes. I do prefer to build buildings that are “full scale” or a believable size even if slightly compressed.

The new layout plan has lots of “real estate” for non railroad scenery.

There will be an urban area, representing a small Mid Atlantic city that will be about 2’ deep and over 25’ long - sounds big until you realize that is not even 1/2 mile long.

The very nature of your question is a key element in my design approach - only model one place, only model one of each major element, do not try to model both “ends” of the line.

I’m modeling a sub division yard in a small city and few selectively compressed miles either side of it - that’s going to fill 1500 sq ft.

But also as explained above, I want scenic depth. I want to be able to model the other aspects of daily life besides what goes on right near the tracks.

So my city will have suburbs, older suburbs with Victorian houses, and newer suburbs with bungalows and such.

And then the rural areas, farming, small “intersection” communities like we still have here, forests, streams, a little taste of what the Mid Atlantic looks like.

One signature scene will be this swing bridge:

The river is about 6’ wide, or 525 scale feet. Small but believable for a navigable river.

Another key scene will be an autombile assembly plant - big enough to look like

6

I’ll never achieve the levels some demand of themselves regarding a number of things, like detail on rolling stock and such.

In a 200 sq foot room with an ISL, even with selective compression, I can’t have it all. One thing I try to do is give industries enough space so as not to look crammed, and make them big enough to legitimize being served by rail. And have some space not served by rail.

This meant eliminating some proposed rail customers and track, tearing out hard earned trackage for a more pleasing open look. I hope that each scene transitions into the other instead of colliding, giving each it’s space for a measure of convincing detail. Dan

7

When it comes to adding detail around specific scenes, I hope that over time I can come close to what David (North Brit) has done with his layout. Every one of his scenes is highly detailed and tells a story.

For example, I plan on having a small suburban scene with five or six houses. My desire is to make those houses look lived in with lots of details like gardens (which David does particularly well), picnic tables, BBQs, lawn mowers, and most importantly, families and pets playing in the yards.

Cheers!!

Dave

8

Thanks for your kind comments, Dave. You have knocked me off my feet.

To illustrate what Dave means. I make little scenes that I have seen in life. Most are not railroad related, but of life in general. Here are a few examples –

I have many transport related passions. One being canal boats. I wanted a quiet scene of a canal boat tied up for the day. Bring it to life. A boy watching. A dog beside him. The horses are inquisitive. Maybe they will be given a carrot?

‘Yesterday’ was a windy day and has made a mess of the garden. Not everything is ‘neat and organized’. Matt Summers is about to tidy it all up. He has his wheelbarrow out. Then he sees a train passing.

At Cranfield’s Newagents we see people heading towards it. The pedal bike left outside whilst the owner is inside. A street cleaner with his barrow.

Thompson’s Timber Yard. Work goes on oblivious to any railroad.

Fixing the wheel on the vehicle. Max the guard dog is wandering over wondering why it is taking so long. Jimmy Marston has been holding that wheel for three years. [:D]. To the right Agnes Marston is off to the store and taking her dog with her.

9

Nice scenes David!

I have a very small space - 7X11 - so a deep layout would mean a lot of sacrifice on the operations front. I find that taking the time to do a proper background to hide the corners makes a big difference. Also, less is always more when it comes to track and buildings. And my buildings will all be completed before I start my scenery. I’m at that point now, scenery work will start soon.

Simon

10

Goodness, I miss these discussion topics. Thanks for restarting them. What a perfect way to tip off the weekend!

My 1st train mentor Charles “Bill” Day mentioned that having miles of track is more realistic than a ton of structures. I’d agree, but it depends on what you’re replicating. I try to replicate southern VA where the N&W reigned supreme in the 1980s.

There are must have industries in that part of the state. Def. coal and ag are prominent. Would many know that the industries I have are from that area? Doubt it. To help ground the localism and boost up the realism, I might even print out signs of local colleges to put on industries.

Adding clutter to the layout is great b/c not much of an industrial area is clean and tidy.

11

I try to do highly detailed everything but HO scale has its limitations as to what you can accually see (one reason I was considering On30 but didn’t have the space). Things for me have to look good from one foot away. Even my highly detailed RTR stuff dose not look real much closer

12

Hi Simon. Thanks for your comment.

My layout is 11ft X 8ft (just a little bigger than yours.) The layout is 00 gauge.

No way would I suggest ‘my way’ is the way to do things. Far from it. Just my way. [:)]

I try to add little scenes I have seen to bring the layout to life and have a reason to be there. A living model railway.

The number of times you know a train is there, but can hardly see it.

It is not all sunshine and blue sky

After a downpour of rain. Puddles. Wet ground. A shaft of sunlight.

Dare to make your layout different.

David

13

When I had my first HO layout in the master bedroom, I added 6 feet to the layout when we moved to the new house. My wife thought it would be nice to add a model of our house, and our previous dream house, to the layout.

My house sits on a modest 1/4 acre lot, 80 feet by 125 feet. I found out the footprint for our lot would be 12 inches by 19 inches! Wow. The dream house was on 1 1/2 acres. An HO scale model of my house would be 10 inches wide and 5 inches deep. The dream house would have been 13 inches by 7 inches!

I will never model buildings in full size!

As far as extending a scene, I clump everything. Industrial buildings go together, businesses go together, and residences go together. The scenes just flow into one another.

-Kevin

14

I will!

At 5 feet long, this model scales out to the full 435 feet of the original. I was going to compress it’s width, but decided since it’s a model of a well known local prototype, illegally torn down in 2004, I had to give it the full footprint. Had to sacrifice one yard track, but well worth it. You should see the look on peoples faces when they see it! “Thats The Crane Shed!” Yep [:D]

I’m doing another local building too, full to scale, but it is far smaller, including it’s slightly compressed parking yard.

This building, viewed from the opposite side as the view of the model.

I took 84 pictures of this building with film, a media I never got along with, before they tore it down without notice!

Since it could easily pass for a barn,I may add a model of my 1/1 shop to the layout, backdating it to the mid 60s by substituting the materials on it that weren’t available in the 60s for those that were. Dan

15

Here’s a scene of Chippawa Creek…

…it’s source not shown, and its destination beyond the edge of the layout.

Here’s the real Chippawa Creek…

…its source some unknown distance behind me, and it’s destination to eventually become the Welland River, and then a feeder to the Welland Canal, all out of sight. We lived, for a couple of years, a stone’s throw from this spot.

Running somewhat parallel to the modelled Chippawa Creek is a road, which comes from nowhere-land beyond the edge of the layout…

…then curves and climbs…

…until it disappears…

I don’t have room for empty

16

Wayne, I’ve never seen anything in any of your pictures that I didn’t like. Always a treat, and everything flows without looking crammed. I’d like to be one of your LPBs so I could get of my plastic but and take that hike!

I notice you have a light touch on the weathering, but it’s there. All the buildings look planted too, not floating. Your use of wild plants and grass, trees is what keeps it believable.

I forgot to mention in my post, although my crane shed is to scale, the real estate around it is more compressed that the 1/1, but I think it can breathe. Dan

17

Yeah, I remember viewing your step-by-step build of that very impressive model.

I’d bet that on a suitable outdoor diorama, with an appropriate real background, it could easily pass as the real one.

Very nicely-done!

Wayne

18

Thank you, Wayne. I don’t tell visitors where I had to compromise on the structure, like the size and spacing of the windows on the end mainly. [:-^] I just let them take it in.

By the way, the 1/1 structure was always well painted and kept looking good from the outside, even though it had internal rot damage towards the end of it’s days. It had served a number of purposes after the sawmill was gone, from beer distributor to indoor tennis courts.

Back to your layout, I’ve been wanting to build a small Flux-O-Line distributor on my layout, and give visitors the true story that it’s a Canadian based firm, the only manufacturer of it’s kind. No further ado! [8D] Dan

19

I think it would be difficult to build a structure to fine scale detail. There’s more more detail to buildings than what we think, IMO.

And a finely detailed model looks out of place in a non finely detailed layout, and more so visa versa.

Non fine detailed layouts are great. I think the eye sees consistency and is fine with that. When I place a finely detailed model amonsgt non finely detailed models, my eye longs for more of the fine details. Can’t go back, so to speak. But that’s me.

As far as scenery, deep scenes are wonderful, especially when entering a room or for club style layouts where visitors have a chance to take in all sorts of things.

But when I’m operating trains, my eye focuses there, and the stuff beyond my immediate focus tends to be background noise, no matter how it looks. Depth of the non railroad scene doesn’t really matter. For my layouts, I prefer a simple blue sky backdrop rather than a detailed photo or painting, because its really only viewed from my peripheral vision and the blank blue backdrop represents infinity. I know lots of things are back there, I just can’t “see” them.

20

Good morning

I like the thread Brent. A lot of good information and pictures here that I have enjoyed.

I don’t feel I’m far enough along with my sea of pink to post from experience on this subject yet. I’m still trying to finish the foam skeleton and all the custom bridges but I’m working on it.

I’m learning some good knowledge here for the future progress of my layout.

Thanks for all the informative posts[Y]

TF