I’ve started doing some scenery on my mountain RR and have been grinding up some pine cones from the local pine trees (their in abundance here). They will work great for my ground cover… My concern with the dried pine cones and any other dried material (plants, leafs,branches etc.) Is there a fire hazard to worry about or am I just worrying for know reason? Obviously there are no open flames in the immediate area of the layout and no smoking is allowed in or around the layout!
Your Thoughts?
I think you will be ok. They sell real moss and I believe the woodland scenic grass is made from animal hair and both of those go up real quick when on fire. Just dont leave the oily rags laying around.
The major problem with “natural materials” (plants, leafs,branches etc.) is that they deteriorate like they would break down in nature, and often loose the color they had naturally when applied. {greens dried [such as parsley flakes] to be applied will loose their color and fade too, rapidly}.
They can be a fire hazard, but many materials {such as ground foam pieces and fake grasses} designed for modeling can also be a fire hazard. Also rigid foam applications on a layout can be bad as well.
The wads of paper used under hills and the cardboard stips used to make “foundations” for plaster hardshell scenery are also fire hazards.
So, you are smart to not allow smoking around your layout, but don’t forget any material can be a fire hazard and set on fire in strange ways {such as a soldering iron left on around flamable layout materials}.
ANd there may not be a way to make your layout totally fire proof.
There is no such thing as a totally fireproof layout. Even dry, cured paint burns (as the U. S. Navy learned the hard way early in WWII.)
That said, a strategically-placed CO2 or dry powder extinguisher (or several) would be a good investment in safety gear. I wouldn’t recommend pouring water on a layout fire unless you were absolutely certain that all the electricals are 100% dead. Even then, I can’t think of ANYTHING on a layout that would be improved by the sudden intrusion of a large quantity of water, especially water under pressure or falling from a height.
Of course, the best situation is to avoid having anything ignite ANYTHING on the layout. All those little tricks with matches are best left for lighting the backyard barbecue.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Pine cones are no more flammable than dyed sawdust, or the pine and plywood used to build the layout. You want to take ordinary fire precautions, but nothing that you wouldn’t do in the ordinary course of events. I take care with heating tools (torches and soldering irons) and I like to turn off all electric power to the layout when it is not in use. Every so often some clever electrical device will spontaneously burst into flames if the power is left on.
A CO2 or dry powder fire extinquisher will put out fires without making the kind of mess that water does.
As an aside. A number of years ago, I got a story from a modeler while attending an NMRA convention. The local Fire Marshall got all bent out of shape because there was lots of crumpled up newspaper under the ‘hard shell’ scenery and wanted the scenery removed! I would think if he saw all the layers of exposed ‘foam’ on many current layouts, he would be just as upset(insulation foam is to be sealed with sheetrock).
I usually make a point of cleaning up the construction area and spent the last evening removing 100’s of crumpled up ‘Walmart’ plastic bags that I had used under my medical plaster wrap scenery. They had been there for over 6 months and I got around to cleaning them out(the ones I could get to) after I had finished up the ground foam/trees on a 20’ by 30" area of the layout. I did not even think about them until one of them was drooping below the fascia.
I have had gas/electrical inspectors and property tax inspectors look at the layout. The property tax inspector commented that the layout being attached to house was considered an ‘improvement’ to the property. But since the house was now over 10 years old, they tax the basement as ‘finished’ anyway! No one even noticed that there is 120VAC circuit around the entire layout! Neat construction keeps them from looking! Usually their eyes get no further than watching the sound equipped engines chuff and blow their whistles…
Jim
Hi,
I understand and share your concern. That is why I fuse everything, basically I go to an automotive shop and get 2 amp car fuses and from there I power up my LED’s to light up the buildings on my layout. The street lights run at only 75 percent of rated voltage, which reduces their operating temperature and they last a lot longer. As for track feeders, I like to use #14 AWG wire that is rated for 15 amps, being that my layout is only 9 by 11 feet I have very little voltage drop concerns. Mind you the track feeders are #18 wire, but considering that every 6 feet there is a track feeder that also reduces the fire hazard because more conductors share in the increased current flow under short circuit conditions.
To sum it up I believe the biggest fire hazards on layouts are light bulbs touching flammable material followed by improper fusing of the circuits that feed the lighting circuits if one uses such items as an old computer power supply. Power packs usually put out so little current that a #16 wire can handle the current output capabilities. Also power packs have overload protection build in.
Hope it helps,
Frank
Well if one were do dissect and analyze all the components that go into building a model railroad it would be like a do not poster for fire safety That being said we all know this and by taking normal precautions like not using power strips without a circuit breaker and plugging in too many extension cords etc. and keeping a fire extinguisher handy are all just good common sense things to do.
Regarding using natural material on a mode railroad Ah no big mistake, when ever you use anything from nature for example such as real dirt for ground cover you need to bake it in an over first to kill off any microbes that can be living in the soil. A lot of guys like to use various plants and flowers etc. for making tree armatures but they all need to be dried out first thats a given. So I would remove what you’ve placed on the layout put it on a cookie sheet and put it in the oven at about 300 for maybe 45 min. to an hour
Oh little hint go get one from the dollar store the wife usually don’t take kindly to using her cookware
Considering that most materials used for layout construction are also used for home construction or the construction of furniture/appliances etc I don’t see where one should worry about what a layout is constructed of. Houses and their contents are generally pretty flamable.
That said, I would wager that most layout fires are started the same way many house fires are: faulty/improper electrical and careless use of ignition sources.
If you run steam, make sure all engines are have spark arresters and you have a Fire Department!
That’s why I play it safe and live in a cement cell. No chance of fire there! You should do the same thing, then maybe you can finally put your mind at ease.
Driline -
That pic makes a guy cringe! Is that where the wife sends you when you’ve been bad?[:O]
By the way, A dry chemical extinguisher will make more mess than you can imagine. I’d recommend CO2 but dry chemical is better than nothing. Also keep a spray bottle around set to mist. That will quickly put out most flare-ups, with the extinguisher as a back up.