I am in the process of planning and designing my first layout and would like some help with ideas for designing the formation of track and turnouts and the numbers of each that I should use. I only have room for a 6’ By 12’ table top and would like help deciding what I could fit in there. In it I would like there to be a large loop with a radius large enough to run a Santa Fe 2-10-2 and I would want to include a yard, possibly an engine terminal, branchline (if possible) and enough track for switching and operations so that I don’t get bored with it. I had the idea that the branchline could go up into a mountain in the center of the table. Also, I don’t want it to look crowded. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Hi
GN 1
I started out with a 4’ X 12’ “GN” free lance in the mountains, It’s now almost 5’ X 30’ oh, well.
Designing the track is best done, by you, using track plans for inspiration.
You will need to lay some track and turn outs down, to get a feel of how much space they take up. The curved turnouts need to have a gentle entry. To get decent grades it takes almost 12’, to rise enough to have an over and under. Using the table top as a datum you can go below and above the datum and shorten the amount of rise on each level.
If I were starting out, knowing what I know now. I believe I would build a frame and lay some plywood on it to do some visualizing, as to how “vast” of an empire I really have. It’s all about planing and not hurrying.
I like the cookie cutter method using 1/2" plywood, so that elevation can be changed easily.
Enjoy the process, [:-^] [swg]
Lee
First, [#welcome] to the forum.
WE often suggest to a new member {or even to an odler member contemplating a new layout} to READ, READ, READ some more, then READ again before startng a layout.
I have a few critiques right off the bat, and provide them not as discouragment, but as a “heads up”.
First, you say you have space for a 6’ x 12 foot table. How far can you REASONABLY reach? You would need to reach 3 feet across a flat table to get at something in the center of your table, THat is a little unrealistic. It gets worse if you go up in elevation there in the center as you say you were thinking shortline into the mountains in the center. Also your reach can be limited further by the height of the trackside buildings and such near the edge of your layout. MOST layouts that wide either have an open pit in the center of them OR a unattached lift out section one can crawl under and lift out to access the inner parts of the layout there.If you have trains runnign close to center line, TRUST me, you WILL have derailments of problems, guaranteed like Murphy’s laws!
Second the larger the curves the better, especially if you want to run larger locos, but remember the radii listed is only center-of-track to center-of-track. you also need a few inches outside the full track outside edge-to-outside edge PLUS at least 2-3 inches for overhang of locos and rr cars as they go around the curves. A 6 foot wide table leaves you good space to have at leat 30" radius curves. Remember that a 30" radius will make a full 60" circle center-to-center. That is 5 feet of your 12 foot length taken up just to get curves in, allowing for edges easements, you will have only about 6 feet in which to pack a yard {not exactly bad}. but switches can take up space of that 6 feet real quick. Even a good sized engine terminal servicing facility can take up space.
Third it is very helpful to plan with any number of computer aided layout planning programs, some free, or to use a scale template t
Just another thought.[I]
Are you talking “HO” or “N” scale? That would a pretty good size “N” layout, With a pop up for reaching.
Enjoy the process [:D]
Lee
I will second that thought. 6’ x 12’ is a huge space to reach into. I would think you will need two pop ups in the center to be able to reach. But I’ll ask, if you have space for a 6’x12’ table I would guess you have a room that is at least 10’x14’. To get large curves for big locomomtives it might be better to do an around the room layout rather than a table top.
Assuming we are talking about HO scale here — If your heart is set on a 6’ x 12’ table type, I would recommend that you look at the layout plans for 4x8s find one you like and simply blow it up (relax it?) to fit the 6’x12’ space. That will give you the broader curves and be not so crowded as it is on a 4x8.
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I realized that I should of added more details to what I want and that I mistakenly posted this topic twice. I am modeling “HO.” I didn’t want the layout to be huge, just enough to run some larger steam locomotives, I belong to a club and can run there, but I thought it would be nice to have home layout for myself and a couple of friends. The layout is being built in a garage which is about 20 by 25 feet, but most of it is taken up by random car parts including an engine, a bunch of work benches, drill press, table saw, band saw, a 5 foot long lathe and lumber. A 6 by 12 foot table is what I’m heavily leaning towards because if I were to build a shelf type layout it could interfere with the various tools in my garage and will eventually need to park a car in there. I believe that a 28" radius might work fine and I have thought about getting a track planning software, but when ever I have the money for one I go and spend it on more rolling stock. I have a few track planning books, but have lost a few. So far I’ve gone through about 2 pads of 17" by 22" trying to get a basic idea of what I kind of want the track setup to look like (I’ve been using 1 1/2 scale to plan). The layout is going to be DCC using MRC’s Prodigy Wireless. The yard would be a ladder style and the track I plan to use is Atlas code 83 and Atlas custom switches for the yard and spurs. It would be nice to have a continuous loop so that i can run trains around in a circle when people come to visit.
I also forgot to add that I once considered a shelf layout in that garage, but there are no places to conveniently anchor the shelves. Almost every square inch of wall is covered with work benches, tools and huge paint cabinets.
Welcome, GN1!
A lot of good advice so far (Galaxy must be having a rainy weekend or something to be so verbose [:)]), and I won’t reiterate it.
Well, I will reinforce two points: first of all, read everything you can get your hands on, and secondly, have a good, well developed plan before you start building anything, or, if possible, even before BUYING anything. Your patience now will mean you’ll require less patience later when things don’t quite work out the way you planned.
My other advice to you is that a 6 x 12 is an awfully big empire to start out with. You may be better served by starting out with a smaller version, either one that is expendable (from day one, you know you’re not going to keep it) or expandable (a small part of what will be a much larger empire). This will allow you to get your feet wet without being overwhelmed. It will also allow you to experiment with different techniques to find out which ones work better for you.
And finally: no one can really design a layout for you. They can only help you do it. Be prepared to answer a lot of questions and to provide most of the details and hard work yourself. To get started, it’s helpful if you can produce a sketch of your space with all the limitations (doors, windows, closets, electrical panels, walls, etc.) so we can really see what you’ have to work with. For example, if you say you have room for a 6x12 table, that may mean, allowing for 2’ aisles on each side, that you really have a 10x18 room available… a different proposition altogether.
Now that’s weird… even though my post is at the end of the thread, and the time stamp on mine is about 8 hours later than the OP’s last post, his weren’t there when I hit the “Reply” button. Now admittedly, I got interrupted and it took me about 20 minutes to post, there’s something fishy going on here.
Plus, his handle shows up under the “Latest Post” on the listing of threads. Hmmmm.
Now for the real response.
You’ve given us a lot more information, which is good.
It sounds like you’re planning to put the layout in an operating workshop, which is less good. All that sawdust will be h-e-double hockey sticks on your layout.
Now, we can give you suggestions to overcome most of the obstacles you’ve suggested. Can you use a simple graphics program (even PowerPoint) to draw your garage more or less to scale, with all the obstacles in it, noting where the doors and windows are and where you’d like to park your car?
BTW, may I respectfully suggest that, if you want to get anywhere in this hobby, that you put your wallet or credit card away, and start making a list of the things you need and want, even the boring stuff like lumber. Then decide how much you can afford each month (or pay period, or whatever) and stick it in an account somewhere until you’re ready to make well thought out purchases that actually support your plan. It sounds like you’re going to end up with a garage full of rolling stock and no where to run it. More importantly, though, you’re running the risk of either having a bunch of rolling stock that doesn’t work with your layout theme (or space), or of trying to design a layout to use all of your rolling stock. Either way, you probably won’t be happy with the results.
Dear CTValleyRR & Friends
Amen to that!
I bought my son a Thomas & Friends O-gauge set before realizing that we don’t have enough room (without giving up our basement photography studio) for a good O-scale layout.
Now I’ve bought him five ExactRail boxcars and probably won’t have a place to run those by the time he receives them for his third birthday on August 20.
It’s dawned on me in the past couple of weeks how much a model railroad might cost exclusive of the locomotives, rollingstock, track, and power and control. I’m trying to work within a US$2500 budget and am beginning to think my expectations have been too high.
Figuring out how to get started requires more patience than one might think.
But I want to point out that it’s important to start somewhere, even if it’s the wrong place. My son will be collecting his retirement before I figure out the perfect model railroad layout.
We’re all working within constraints. A limited amount of time is one constraint shared by us all.
–Jaddie
hi Jaddie,
i am not a polite as some others. ExactRail cars for a 3-year old; you must be insane. And there is more; if you are trying to go for the perfect road, you will only be disappointed. It is the journey not the destination that counts in the end.
Hi GN Worker
i fully agree with the other posters. A separate part of the basement, used for your empire only and shielded from dust and other activities is what you need. Having said this, you are so easily saying shelves are impossible to build. You should see those issues as challenges, often pretty easy to overcome if you are willing to learn.
One remark, if you really like to enjoy your model-railroad, it should be build rather high. Opinions differ, most railroads are operated standing up and a height somewhere between your armpit and navel is what most modelers are aiming for.
Generally speaking an around the room type layout or a donut-type layout is keeping everything within easy reach, at the very same time allows for pretty large radii and keeps the costs of scenery down.
Smile
Paul
I all ready have all the lumber that I need to build, I just haven’t had the time to cut and assemble it yet. Since the place where I am building it is a working shop I’ve been thinking that I could cover the layout up with painter’s plastic.
OK… but my point wasn’t about the lumber, exactly. It’s that you need to start developing a list of all the things you DO need and start saving money for them, rather than spending cash on rolling stock (which you may not need just yet… or ever) as fast as you get it. And that you need to plan on spending for the not-so-exciting stuff, too. You have lumber, but do you have paint, wire, glue, plaster, foam, etc?
BTW, a shelf layout describes the type of layout. It doesn’t mean that it has to be fastened to a wall, just that it sticks out from the wall like a shelf. It sounds like you’re fairly familiar with woodworking; you could probably come up with more ideas for free-standing supports than I could.
For covering your layout, yes, that might work, but many of the details on our layouts are rather fragile. If you have some type of cover that you can get on and off the layout without dragging it over your layout, that would work, but I think you’d quickly get tired of the effort involved in protecting it.
We’re not saying you CAN’T build a layout in your garage / workshop, just that you’ll have dirt issues if you do. This is going to be YOUR layout, and only you have to be happy with it. So our advice is to find a less dusty place for it, but if that option is not on the table, for whatever reason, then post a scale drawing, or a good sketch, of your area, and we’ll help you get your ideas flowing.
Hi GN.
Good advice given so far. A few thoughts:
The painters plastic could be either a really bad idea, or one that works rather well, if properly planned. As another has mentioned, the details on a layout are fragile, and the weight and movement of the plastic will likely disturb many of them.
You could plan the layout to have a very sturdy backdrop down the center, splitting the layout into two 3 x 12 halves, and keeping delicate details away from the edges. The plastic might drape over the layout well enough to keep it covered yet off of the main surface. I haven’t heard of anyone doing this before, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t work. And yes, I would think that would keep much of the dust off of the layout.
If you have two halves, one half could be a yard/ industrial area and the other could be a rural area. The looping branch line would eat up too much space, as someone else has mentioned. So, the rural half could have a short switchback branch up the side of the backdrop, or flat switchback that reaches an awkwardly located industry. 36 inches should provide enough depth to have a workable switchback, and then some. And there should be enough length as well. Also, one switchback to reach an industry is kind of fun. More than one becomes a PITA.
Just an idea. You and others will have many more.
No matter what plan you come up with, you will want to limit the track to a 30 inch depth. Don’t count on being able to reach beyond that to uncouple cars or to rerail derailed ones. Save the last six inches for scenery only and remember that you’ll have to likely place an arm or knee on the edge of the layout to build the scenery back there, so you may have to plan to build the areas you can’t reach well first.
So many members have much more advice to give, but its best if you come back soon with some more specifics about what you want or can realistically do.
Hey GN [:D]
I would think carefully how to remove dust from the layout. In my garage / shop I use a leaf blower every time I cut anything to clean out the area. Dust gets every where that is not hermetically sealed. Sometimes I blow out dust bunnies that are as big as real rabbits.
One might have to forgo trees and delicate structures for rolling hills with grass mat and paint for dirt. The ability to vacuum the whole thing with a vacuum brush, might be the best way to go.
Just my [2c] for what it’s worth.
Lee