I had the same problem so switched to Kato Unitrack.
(When track questions come up, it’s pretty much expected that I mention Unitrack.)
[:P]
hi all
Given the right conditions all brands of track flex or set can play that game
I have big temprature variations
How I deal with it I use code 100 track so in out of sight areas I use the expanda track’s many manufacturers make that looks like a level crossing and you slide to the length to fill an odd gap which is what they are really meant for.
In high visabilaty areas I use Peco expansion joints these look like and work just like prototype well expansion joints.
You do need to electricaly bond around both these tracks to make sure you don’t get dead spots because of the expansion and contraction in both kinds of set up but it works well.
I would rather spend the extra few dollars so I don’t have to fix heat buckles later
regards John
Very interesting thread as I am building a layout in our heated attic (boiler/radiator-type heat, not forced air) and just last weekend encountered a number of locations where the newly laid flextrack had bowed outward. My wife and I live in Minnesota and last weekend we left town. The outdoor temperature dropped down to -14 F and the relative humidity dropped to approx. 53% (max. of around 73%). Of course the indoor temperature ranged from 60 to 70 F, but the outdoor air was very dry (air at -14 F can’t hold much water vapor). This was the coldest air of the winter thus far.
The layout is constructed with 3/4" plywood “ribbons” supported by risers on 1x3 joists and 1x4 L-girders, with cork roadbed and Peco flextrack. The track is glued to the cork with DAP Alex Plus, and all rail joiners on curves are soldered, as are some on the straight sections (not many of those as its a curvy layout in a 12’ x 13’ space). I soldered the flextrack into 6’ or 9’ sections and then soldered each of those to the track already in place before curving them to the required radius. What that meant for me was that there was a short (approx. 6" to 9") section where there was no glue holding the track to the cork, as I didn’t apply the glue until I had worked the track into the required radius, then I pulled it back a little to apply the glue (Peco flextrack is forgiving with that).
Last Monday when we returned there were approximately 12 locations where the track had bowed outward, all located where there was no glue holding the track to the cork, or directly adjacent to those locations (in the latter case some of the track was pulled a little bit off of the glue). I have replaced those &q
I always thought that with A/B plywood of at least 3/8 inch, you had a product with less voids in the inner plys, and therefore more glued surfaces and greater dimensional stability.
When I built my switching layout table, I chose such superior plywood and used well dried fir for the framing, allowing the framing pieces to adjust to my garage for about 5 days before cutting. I also used Liquid Nails construction adhesive and a generous amount of gp construction screws ( more per linear foot than perhaps necessary) to enhance stability.
Cedarwoodron
Dosn’t matter, wood is porous and will expand and contract. Neither cork or caulk or foam will expand enough to cause problems in the typical layout senerio, wood can and dose in as little as 4’.
I have had problems with track expanding and buckling for several years. There is no plywood in my layout. My unheated garage can go from 100 degrees in the summer to minus 20 or even minus 30 last winter. Thats a 130 degree difference. It only takes less than 1/8 inch expansion in soldered track to buckle it. My track was cork roadbed over homosote, with the track glued to the cork roadbed with white glue. The track in some places lifted upward, breaking away from the cork roadbed, and some places went sidewise. I have seen gaps open up and close in a matter of several hours, when I heat the garage to work out there. It is not humidity doing this, at least in my case.
Homasote is wood!!! Requires 3/16" between panels, a little less than ply, depending on the wood the ply is made of.
Interesting observation: The two areas that just buckled were ‘un-senicked’ but the one last year was fully scenicked. However, they were all over 1/2" to 3/4" plywood. The lastest ones were also where I had been very ‘thrifty’ with the caulk and may have had a little to do with the location of the buckling. Considering that my layout is now about 5-6 years old and almost all joints are soldered, I consider myself fortunate in not having more places with this issue.
-Bob
Slightly off topic, but seeing the grumbles about humidity and kinking reminded me of something that one of the professors who I worked with at the university where I went did to solve that problem. (This idea could maybe be used depending on the dryness of the air and the temp of the area in question.) She taught Geography, among other subjects. She had lots of wicker-type baskets that she kept in her office. To keep them from cracking, she would fill glass jars with water. As the air would dry out the water would evaporate from the jars. (I would occasionally help her fill those jars, so I have seen it work.)
Rebell,
Sorry…But that statement about Homasote, is not true!
http://www.pakline.com/homasoteboard/homasoteboard.html
Have not experienced any expansion/contraction on My layout in going on 32yrs. Kiln dried white pine 1x3’s, 1/2 exterior grade ply, with flat area’s covered with 1/2 Homasote roadbed, cut Myself. All glued, screwed and newer sections, used an air-brad nailer, instead of screw’s…faster and just as strong. DC 3-cab control, with around 45 blocks…not once have I had a problem. It’s in My attic, in a burg. in ‘‘Chiberia’’. Attic has not always been temp. controlled. When You build with cheap green material…You reap the results.
Take Care!![:D]</
Is it only me,or have others noticed that certain keys, such as the question mark and exclamation point, seem to be stuck on rrebell’s computer? [(-D][(-D][(-D]
Rich
Hi,
My current layout (11x15 HO) was constructed in 2008. I bought decent A/C 1/2 inch (current equivalent) and it sat in an insulated garage for a few months before being used. I finished up the benchwork, roadbed, trackage, wiring during the spring/summer/fall months. Of course, here in Houston every day is humid to one degree or another…
During winter, one day I went into the layout room (2nd floor spare bedroom) and (expletive deleted)…what happened??? In 14-16 spots the tracks were seriously warped. The obvious reason (in my case) was the plywood finally was in a rather low humidity area and just dried out and shrunk. And it doesn’t take much shrinkage to warp a set of rails.
The good news was that most of the warps were quickly fixed by running a Dremel cutting tool and putting a slice in each rail. Amazing how they snapped back in place. But as I recall, 3 places had to be cut out and rebuilt.
Hi all
A lot of this thread seems to be dealing with wood and humidity etc.
Well its recomended the timber is left a week or two where it going to be used,
not somewhere else then moved.
Then the wood cut and layout built after its played its silly games.
If after that it is still going to play games.
I would have thought the sensible thing to do would be to seal the timber with a good quality sealer as each section is completed.
After that once all the boards are made the grab some cheap earth tone house paint and paint the lot only after that build a railroad on it.
Leaving the pretty finish how ever you happen like that untill it can be applied without spoiling anything or being spoiled.
I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed,
But I always seal my layout bench work where humidity or dryness may be an issue particularly if I know the material will soak in moisture or may dry out to much.
regards John
[quote user=“zstripe”]
rrebell
hobo9941
I have had problems with track expanding and buckling for several years. There is no plywood in my layout. My unheated garage can go from 100 degrees in the summer to minus 20 or even minus 30 last winter. Thats a 130 degree difference. It only takes less than 1/8 inch expansion in soldered track to buckle it. My track was cork roadbed over homosote, with the track glued to the cork roadbed with white glue. The track in some places lifted upward, breaking away from the cork roadbed, and some places went sidewise. I have seen gaps open up and close in a matter of several hours, when I heat the garage to work out there. It is not humidity doing this, at least in my case.
Homasote is wood!!! Requires 3/16" between panels, a little less than ply, depending on the wood the ply is made of.
Rebell,
Sorry…But that statement about Homasote, is not true!
http://www.pakline.com/homasoteboard/homasoteboard.html
Have not experienced any expansion/contraction on My layout in going on 32yrs. Kiln dried white pine 1x3’s, 1/2 exterior grade ply, with flat area’s covered with 1/2 Homasote roadbed, cut Myself. All glued, screwed and newer sections, used an air-brad nailer, instead of screw’s…faster and just as strong. DC 3-cab control, with around 45 blocks…not
True but that is because I don’t want to learn the other ways of making a statement stand out.
‘‘What did I say that was untrue, paper fiber which is wood and manufactures instilation instructions, facts are facts’’!
Rrebell,
I guess You didn’t read about paper pulp and wood in the link I posted and what makes them different!?..Now My button is stuck! LOL [swg]
Take Care![:D]
Frank
As a previous poster indicated, you can seal the plywood beforehand. But remember, that means painting BOTH sides and edges and IMO, it would take two coats to work.
For a small layout, that would be fairly easy, but for anything large it would be a project of size and time. I believe I had 7-8 sheets for my layout, and I thought the wood was dry as it sat for two months in an insulated garage.
If I had known of the impending problem, I might well have taken the time to paint it beforehand - both sides of course.
I read it and so what is different than what I said, even after you kilm dry wood fibers they remain active and will absorb and expell moisture, even after being sealed (just ask any furniture maker).
Rrebell,
It’s KILN dried wood not fibers. The true Homasote registered trademark brand is made from recycled newspaper pulp… I have yet to see any paper expand/contract!
Believe what You want…That’s Your prerogative. Been using it for quite a number of yrs. in interior work and never experienced any problem’s without painting either side and I do not leave any gap. I would only leave a gap, if I was attaching it to an exterior wall, whereby what it is attached to, will expand/contract.
I have never seen or heard of any furniture maker who use’s any Homasote made with recycled newspaper.
Take Care! [:D]
Frank
You make some great points in that reply, Frank. [Y]
Rich