Who has used forced perspective on their layouts? For those who aren’t familiar with the term, it means using structures or even trains from the next smaller scaller as background items to create the sense of greater distance. I read about the technique many years ago but have never actually seen it other than in photos. I am considering trying it in one corner of my layout with N scale structures near the summit of a large hill. I wondered how convincing the illusion is.
jecorbett,
i’m not to sure about how convinceing it would be ither. but it never hurts to try something new. i think i will try it out and see how it works. what scale do u model in?
A LHS (since closed) had a N scale farm house & barn set up on a hill at the rear corner of a 4x8 HO layout. The layout was about 3 1/2 ’ high, and when standing it didn’t look that great, but if you crouched down to about 1’ above the front edge, it looked very good. Layout height seems to have everything to do with the effect.
John,
If done well, it works. There was an MR article 2-3 years ago where the author used N-scale forced perspective on his HO layout. From the picture, I wouldn’t have known unless the article hadn’t pointed it out. Essentially, it was a 3D version of a 2D backdrop in that area.
The essential thing to make it convincing is enough distance. In HO, 3-4’ between the viewer and the subject matter should be a minimum distance.
Tom
I use forced percpective to keep the viewer at the best angle of sight. It is not restricted to using smaller details to force distance perception. In order to keep the operator at a town focussed on that area I seperate by using hills and structures. If you turn a structure at an angle to the viewer it draws them further into the scene yet deters them from looking around the structure. I have a town on the layout that if you are working the industries you won’t see where the train comes from or goes to so you focus on that area. When the mainline operator follows his train he will see it enter and exit the town and progress into a secluded mountain area that is isolated from the other areas.
To me this is the best way to create distance between stops and keeps people interested. I try to hide my curves so each area will have a name associated with it even though there may be nothing there.
I have not used it. I think it is something that really has to be thought out in the planning stage. I use paint to create perspective–at least I will use paint. From the picture’s I’ve seen, it seems to be the most effective way to create perspective on a layout sized scale. I imagine a combination of the two would be most effective, especially if you can work in several sizes–like downscaling trees.
I’m an HO modeler (my original term got bleeped) and I would use N for the perspective. I know TT is the next scale down but I’ve never seen it sold anywhere so N is the logical choice.
yes i was going to say use N and not TT because it is hard to locate sometimes. and thats y i asked. :]
This is interesting because I’ve done the same thing although without really thinking about it in terms of perspective. It just happened that way. The end of the basement curve from my yard to the end wall section will be hidden in a deep cut, and the curve from that section to the next long wall will be through a double track tunnel with the hill running diagonally into the corner of the backdrop. It is on top of this hill that I am considering the use of N scale structures to force the perspective. It will be a tree covered Appalachian looking hill with a few N scale houses and an N width road near the summit.
I’m planning it for a corner section near the bend in the backdrop. I should be right in that 3-4’ ballpark.
In reality, forced perspective only works well enough to appear believable in photographs of a modeled scene. When the same scene is viewed in person, with both eyes, the effect of distance/extreme depth will be lost. However, the feeling of distance can often be restore simply by closing one eye (and thus loosing one’s 3-D depth perception), especially if viewing the scene from a fairly low angle, as another poster suggested. It’s all a matter of how the brain handles 3-D verses 2-D images.
Much the same is true of attempting to directly extend portions of a 3-D modeled scene on the layout into a 2-D backdrop, as with a road, a river, a hill, etc. While such scenes will often present very well in photos, they are usually found to be totally unconvincing in person. A lack of understanding of the situation has led many a hobbyist, on seeing great photos of this sort of thing in the magazines, to attempt to recreate the effect on their own layouts…only to find what looked so impressive and realistic in the magazine totally failed to do so when they tried it.
CNJ831
I have a few examples and plan more. The most elaborate so far is on the Arizona side of the Kanyon. HO at the bottom. N at the top. I varied the size of the cactus as I moved up the mountain to help the effect. I also have a walking path up another mountain where the hikers are of different sizes to get the effect. Show us what you come up with because we are all learning this together.
CNJ, you are sort of right, but I think my cactus mountain looks better in person than on a pic. I think you need some space to make it work, and you certainly need some scratch built sceneritems to ease the transition between HO and N.
I believe that the concept is sound, but it is very difficult to pull off unless one has objects to place where the details and scale match. For example, I knowingly placed my smaller pines closer to the backdrop for that purpose, but the “pines” all have branches that are the same dimensions in cross-section…hardly very convincing. So, if an HO pine nearest the viewer had a cross section of, say, 3mm in a given section, the N scale variant against the backdrop would have to have a cross-section near 1.2-1.5mm, irrespective of its placement for distance. Otherwise, the eye easily sees that it is just another HO pine, only smaller in stature and 24" further away.
John and everyone,
As I read the additional comments made after I originally added my response to the question, I remembered something the author may have used in that article that I mentioned. I believe he used a horizonal fence and field to separate the foreground (HO) from the back ground (forced-prospective in N-scale). The author stated that this would fool the eye and brain enough to thinking that there is more distance between the two than there really was. Makes sense to me. I’ll see if I can’t hunt that layout/article down for you - unless someone else remembers right off hand.
Tom
Tom,
Very interesting suggestion. I wonder if placing a road winding up the hill would accomplish the same thing. I intend for it to be a heavily wooded hillside with the roadway breaking the line of trees. I wonder if having an HO width road at the bottom disappearing into the trees and reappearing halfway up the hill in N width would enhance the illusion. I guess there’s only one way to find out. If it doesn’t work, I can always remove the N scale houses and cover up the area with trees. I might even use home mode cardboard houses to see if it works before spending money for some real N scale structures.
Try to understand, folks, that the concept of forced perspective, as it is applied to model railroading, or building dioramas in general, is really intended to convey the impression of distance to the viewer. It will never provide an actual illusion of distance to the scene’s appearance except, as I pointed out earlier, in photographs*.* Appreciate also that the two situations are totally different and only in the second instance can the viewer be said to be tricked into believing he is seeing great depth where little or none exists*.* Any claims to the contrary are simply fictitious.
CNJ831
In order for it to be convincing it has to be done well. It will also depend on the available viewing angles. Some things will look really well from one view point but really stupid from another. Most of the instances I have seen of forced perspective turn out looking exactly like that, FORCED perspective. So about all you can do is to try it and see how it looks when done, nothing says it can’t be reworked if the illusion doesn’t work.
Problems? go to your nearest art supply store or someone who teaches art and painting, they will show you in a few minutes the details of FP.
I built a layout once that used both HO and N scale trains, identical to each other except for size. Viewers would see the HO train pass by at the front of the layout and disappear into a tunnel. After a short time, the N scale train would emerge from a tunnel at the back of the layout, which was scenicked to look farther away than it was. The trains completed the illusion, making it seem that the layout was much larger than it was.
I’d thought about using N scale trains for a parallel mainline but never for duplicating a train in the distance. That’s a clever idea. My own layout is too far along to consider that possibility.