FORUM CLINIC: Picking the best DCC system

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
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I previously posted this product review on another forum but have now added some additional info and editing.

I now have my new MRC wireless up and running. I would like to give you all some info about it. I’ve had experience with Atlas DCC, Lenz, CVP wireless on the Lenz system, and NCE Power Cab. But what I’ve been wanting is a duplex radio system with one full featured cab that woud do everything from anywhere on the layout. So my choices were only between MRC and NCE. Here is what I’ve found regarding MRC so far:

Basic specs:

3.5 amp system with approx. 14.5 track voltage.

2 or 4 digit addresses

14/28/128 speed steps

Advanced and Universal consisting

Main and Program Track programming (read back on Programming Track)

433 MHz frequency

Maximum number of cabs is 32

Items included:

Full featured wireless cab

Base unit

Power supply

(4) AAA rechargeable batteries

Cord for recharging the handheld cab

User’s Manual

My cost was $329.95 + shipping

Ease of use:

Very easy to use. I would rate it a notch or two above Power Cab for intuitive operation and ease of use. The manual is fairly small, well written and easy to follow. It is often directed to beginning DCC users but everthing is there for the more sophisticated user without cluttering it up with uneccesary verbage.

Keys are well marked in clear english as well as clear and understandable on-screen read-outs and instructions.

The trouble shooting section is written is a very clear and logical progression.

Cab operation and train control:

I definitely prefer the speed control knob to NCE’s thumb wheel. MRC also provides push button speed control via one step per push. This can come in handy at times if you need one-handed cab control for uncoupling, etc. . Normally, the MRC cab wil require

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Here is a correction to my previous MRC wireless review:

Cab operation and train control:

And any loco can be quickly deleted with a double press of the delete key.

That should read… with a 2 second press of the delete key.

I also apologize for the typos and misspellings in the review. I’m afraid I rushed it a bit.

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You got that right. I have had my Digitrax Chief for a little over a year and have never been able to get the setting up of routes to work. Sent the whole works in twice and they tell me nothing is wrong. I use there DS64 stationary decoders and I believe that is the problem so I have to set up my routes through the DS64s instead of the DT400. If anyone has been able to work this feature I would like to hear from them. Got no help from the Digitrax forum.

Bill

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jwils1: You said " I now have my new MRC wireless up and running."

You’ve been such a strong Lenz supporter and have piqued my interest in Lenz, so I have to ask: Why did you switch?

Rick Krall

325

That’s a good question. I’ll try to answer.

Lenz is an excellent system. I have all three throttles, including the cordless phone, plus I used an Atlas Commander as an extra throttle. For awhile, I even used a CVP radio throttle designed for the Lenz system. All have performed flawlessly.

I have a 6’ x 18’ table-top layout, so to run things, I need to walk all the way around the table. I have reasons for going table-top instead of around the wall, but that’s another story.

I found myself using the LH100 throttle for programming, consisting, speed matching, etc. I preferred the LH90 for just running trains. But, to move quickly to another part of the layout to do some switching, clear a short or a derail, I usually grabbed the cordless phone throttle. I tried the CVP radio throttle to use in lieu of the cordless phone, but it really didn’t work any better, or do any more than the phone (although it has some nice features like a display and a speed knob), and the CVP is very expensive.

So, for a long time, I’ve been wishing that Lenz would develop a full featured wireless throttle that would do everything (programming, consisting, system changes, etc.). This is apparently not going to happen any time soon. So, for me, a solo operator, who often runs 3 or more trains at one time, and who would like to do consisting and some programming on the fly, I’ve been looking for a full featured duplex radio throttle.

MRC and NCE appeared to be my only possible choices at this time. MRC advertisements sounded good, performance reports from

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Just posting to get this on the “My Forums” list.

I have been pleasantly surprised at both the tone of the postings and the value of the information posted. Keep it up.

I’ve been using DC for my 12 years (4 of them in the '70s) in the hobby. I had been ignoring DCC as an expensive luxury that I could easily get by without. Then, 3 weeks ago, I spoke with the MRC and Digitrax reps at the Amhearst Railway Society Railroad Hobby Show in Springfield MA (5.5 ACRES of dealers, demos and layouts) and realized how far out in left field I was. Now very interested, and planning to buy later in the year.

327

Just a slight Bump for those of you with cash flowage…and the rest of us…we continue our never ending quest for that all elusive free posted schematic of a complete DCC system, so we can etch some PC board and build one from our huge inventory of spare parts, and join yous guys in the 21st century… but in the meantime we read this AWSOME THREAD and dream on…[#dots][:(][sigh][:slight_smile:]

THANK YOU MR.FUGATE!!![bow][bow]

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You’re welcome!

I will be presenting a DCC clinic at the NMRA National this summer in Anaheim, and I plan to include lots of updated info. The clinic will be in the NMRA clincs book, and I will be running a video camera …

This clinic thread is going on 4 years old now … sheesh how time flies!

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Thank you for the topc … the timing is excellent for myself (and I’m sure for others too). I am a complete noobe; I don’t have anything yet, but that will quickly change! I’ve been reading everything I can get my hands on about model RR.

I will be purchasing a DCC starter system and am leaning towards the Digitrax Zepher or the NCE PowerCab. I have eliminated the Bachmann EZ-command because of lack of functions, such as programming CV’s. I have read the complete manual for the Digitrax Zepher and most of the manual for the NCE PowerCab. The writers for Digitraxx did a wonderful job. That is one of the best technical/user manuals I have ever read. The writers at NCE are engineers, the writing was more technical and less user manual.

Both of the systems had their pluses and minuses. The Zepher had a little more power (2.5 amps vs 2.0 amps with the PowerCab). The emg stop on the Zepher also shuts down everything on the system when press vs only shutting down the selected loco on the PowerCab. Hey, if it is an emergancy … I want it all to STOP!!

The CAB on the PowerCab allows you to move around the layout, while the Zepher is stationary. The controls on the PowerCab also seem to be more user friendly than the Zepher. Over all both sound like they are decent systems at about the same price point.

So the question then becomes … From the experienced users on the Forum, which system has given the better results, least problems, better support, and of course the most fun!

Enjoy!

Kent S

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Kent, both NCE and Digitrax support their products well. You will get glowing accounts from both sets of users, so I don’t think that there is much to choose between them in that regards. The Zephyr has been on the market a lot longer than the PowerCab so there are a lot more Z users out there, as one would expect given the extra years of sales. The oldest PowerCabs are around 2 years old, the oldest Zephyrs are close to 8 years I believe.

The PowerCab supports more functions than the Z and as you have noted is a walk around form factor compared to the console of the Z. You can of course add walk around throttles to the Z very easily, by simply plugging them into the Loconet port. Both of the systems are fun to use. I really don’t think you can separate them on the basis of your criteria “better results, least problems, better support, and of course the most fun!”

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Thanks for the comments Simon … I do appreciate you taking the time to give me your 2c worth. It is good to hear that both systems are solid performers with few problems. Being a newbie reliablility is a MUST HAVE. I will have enough of a learning curve … I don’t need a system that is unreliable and will give me fits by not functioning properly.

I haven’t completed reading the PowerCab manual yet, but it does seem to have more features than the Zepher. I’m hoping others will also leave comments … good and bad experiences.

Thanks

Kent S

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I have the Digitrax Chief. I love it, and the manual is clear, comprehensive and easy to understand.

I have never used the other brand, or the Zephyr.

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Kent,

Simon has given you a well-rounded answer for both Zephyr and Power Cab systems. Either one will work very well for you and each one has it’s pluses for going with it.

I bought my Bachmann E-Z Command in early 2005 and had it for a year. I then migrated to the Power Cab in February 2006 when it first came out because of it’s greater capabilities. I later added the Smart Booster (SB3) to the Power Cab in November 2006 and have been very happy with that set up ever since.

With the SB3 installed, I now have total freedom to plug and unplug the Power Cab around my layout. If I want, I can also use the Power Cab at my bench for progamming, then take it over to the layout to run trains. I like the Power Cab because the throttle button configuration and programming menu is very intuitive…for me.

One big advantage Digitrax has over NCE is in the upgrade path. With Digitrax, you can pretty much incorporate everything from your Zephyr and use it with the Super Empire Builder (SEB) without losing anything. While the Power Cab can be used with the Powerhouse Pro (PH Pro) as an extra throttle, the SB3 can’t. So, you are out the $$$ that you paid for SB3 if you upgade.

Bottom line: Either system will be very reliable and make your DCC experience an enjoyable one. You just need to determine which one is going to best meet your needs - both current and future.

Tom

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Thanks Tom! Its great to hear from someone who has personal experience with one of the systems I’m considering. I did finish reading the PowerCab online manual… and it left me with a few questions. Hopefully you won’t mind answering some for me.

  1. At 2 amps, how many locos can you run? and with how many accessory items? I’m hoping to hear 4 locos. Plans are for a least 1 frieght and 1 passenger, both will probably have 2 locos.

  2. Can the PowerCab control a DC loco or a DCC ready loco without a decoder installed?

The documentation for the PowerCAb didn’t show a complete diagram (or photo) of track/accessory connections. The Zepher has mulitple connection points: Track Power : Programming Track DCC signal only : and seperate power for turnouts, and other accessories.

  1. Does the PowerCab also have multiple power connections for these different uses?

Thanks again Tom for your comments. I do appreciate the education I’m getting here by reading this (and other topics) on the forums.

Kent

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HOW MANY LOCOS CAN I RUN?

To determine how many HO locos you can run, here’s a simple guideline:

Non-sound loco: 0.25 amps

Sound loco: 0.50 amps

So the Powercab can run about 6 non-sound locos, or about 3 sound locos.

WHAT ABOUT DC LOCOS (WITH NO DECODER)?

Sorry, the Powercab doesn’t do DC locos, period.

Once you see how poorly DC locos perform on a DCC system (any DCC system) using this feature, you will realize running DC locos this way is a stop-gap feature at best. You get much better performance by running a loco with DCC and and decoder.

WHAT ABOUT A SEPARATE PROGRAMMING TRACK CONNECTION OR ACCESSORY POWER?

Sorry, the Powercab doesn’t have a separate programming track connection. For that you need to upgrade to an SB3.

The Powercab also doesn’t have a separate accessory connection for turnouts, etc. Any accessories you power with your system will cut into the system’s loco running capacity, so it’s not recommended that you power turnouts/accessories off your DCC system that provides the track power. Doing so is a stop-gap measure, and you should not plan on doing this long-term.

CONCLUSIONS

The Zephyr gives you a lot for the money, including the ability to run DC locos and the ability to use a normal DC power pack as a throttle. If you already have a big investment in DC equipment, then the Zephyr’s abilities will be handy as a stop-gap. But longer-term you will want to move to straight DCC because loco performance is better. The power pack form factor is a bit less useful than a true walkaround form factor would be.

The NCE system has the advantage that it uses the same user interface exactly as its big brother the Procab system, so once you learn the commands, you’ve learned the system for all-time. Digitrax uses a lot of somewhat different key labels and different command sequence

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I have 5 DS64s and a Super Chief and I’ve programmed all of my routes in the DS64s. I prefer that as opposed to using the routes supported in the DCS100. I’ve got some routes that cascade across 3 DS64s and have up to 17 commands being executed. I’d save DCS100 routes them for stationary decoders like the DS44s etc, where routes aren’t supported. With DS64s there is no reall reason to use DCS100 routes. For routes on your Super Chief system did you check Option Switch 26 on the DCS100 ? The default is thrown, which allows routes but it would be good to check. If it is closed routes won’t work.

Maybe you can describe what happens when you try to enter routes in the DCS100 ?

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Kent,

Well, it looks like Joe has already answered all your questions. I’ll just add a couple of additional points.

  1. The Power Cab is a throttle/command station/booster all rolled-up-into-one:
  • Advantage - It’s self-contained and portable
  • Disadvantage - If you disconnect it from the layout, the entire layout shuts down

  1. The Power Cab plugs into the left (powered) connector port of the PCP panel. An additional throttle can be connected to the right connector port. The wall transformer connects to the back of the PCP panel.

  2. The Power Cab comes with a 7’ (RJ-12) 6-connector cable. That makes it a tethered walk around system. If you want true walk-around capability, you’ll need to add the Smart Booster (SB3) or upgrade to the PH Pro. For my small 4 x 8, the SB3 works just fine.

  3. Before I purchased the SB3, I had the PCP panel connected to an Atlas slide switch so that I could switch between my programming track and the layout. (An SPDT - single pole, double throw - switch will do the same thing.) Now that I have the SB3, I have no need for the slide switch.

To run my layout, I merely plug into a UTP panel. And I can have as many UTP panels situated around my layout as I want because they are all daisy-chained together. The PCP panel is still needed for programming locomotives but is completely isolated from the rest of the layout.

Kent, if you’d like to read additional information on the Power Cab, click on my web site link at the bottom of this post and go to my Review page. You’ll find an initial review of the Power Cab, as well as a review of the CAB-04 throttle and the Smart Booster. It’s primarily my initial thoughts and impressions but does discuss some of the capabilities of each.

Hope that helps…

Tom

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Joe, that’s misleading.

In both cases, the manufacturer makes both “full-featured” and “engineer” cabs with different layouts.

The PowerCab/Pro Cab may be the same, but the Cab04 and Cab05 aren’t laid out the same as each other or as the PowerCab/Pro Cab.

How is that different from Digitrax’s DT400 and UT4 (“all their throttles”) not having the same layout?

And speaking of having to “learn the differences”, don’t some of the PowerCab’s abilities (like the ammeter) go away when it’s used as a Pro Cab? Aren’t those “differences” you’d have to “learn”?

If you’re talking about the Zephyr having a different layout, well sure, as a stationary system it has a completely different design philosophy. So of course it’s different! After all, if NCE ever came out with a system designed for stationary use, I’d really hope it wouldn’t be a(n even bigger) hammerhead with rubber feet.

But you know what? If you plug a DT400 or UT4 into that Zephyr, both the DT400/UT4 and the Zephyr will continue to work exactly the same as they did before they were plugged together. None of the abilities of either one changes or goes away, and there aren’t different key labels or different command sequences, so there are no differenc

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Steve:

You always keep me honest, don’t you? It’s true that the NCE PowerCab and ProCab have a few minor command differences, but you’ll have to study the manual really closely to find them. It’s probably two or three commands out of a hundred or more, so it’s maybe a 2-3% difference, and those minor differences are not common comands you use very much.

On NCE to address a loco with your throttle:

  • PowerCab: Press “Select Loco”, type in the loco’s digits and press enter.
  • ProCab: Press “Select Loco”, type in the loco’s digits and press enter.
  • Cab 04: Press “Select Loco”, type in the loco’s digits and press enter.
  • Cab 05: Press “Select Loco”, type in the loco’s digits and press enter.

For Digitrax systems, the differences are more significant, even for common commands like selecting a loco. The differences used to be really very different, but Digitrax is getting better with their newer products – a point which I often make when discussing the user interface of the various DCC system. Here’s a specific example.

  • Zephyr: Press the LOCO key. Type in the loco address on the keypad. Press LOCO again.
  • UT4: Dial up the loco number on the thumbwheels, then press the SEL key.
  • UT2 (discontinued): Dial up the loco number on the thumbwheels, then press ACQ/DISP key.
  • DT300 (discountinued): Click the throttle knob you want to use to activate it. Press the SEL key. Turn the left and right throttle knobs to select the loco address you want. Press SEL again once you have the address showing in the display.
  • DT400: Click the throttle knob you want to use to activate it. Press the LOCO key. Type in the loco address on the keypad. Press LOCO again.

If you move

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Well Joe, somebody has to! [:D]

[quote user=“jfugate”]

It’s true that the NCE PowerCab and ProCab have a few minor command differences, but you’ll have to study the manual really closely to find them. It’s probably two or three commands out of a hundred or more, so it’s maybe a 2-3% difference, and those minor differences are not common comands you use very much.

On NCE to address a loco with your throttle:

  • PowerCab: Press “Select Loco”, type in the loco’s digits and press enter.
  • ProCab: Press “Select Loco”, type in the loco’s digits and press enter.
  • Cab 04: Press “Select Loco”, type in the loco’s digits and press enter.
  • Cab 05: Press “Select Loco”, type in the loco’s digits and press enter.

For Digitrax systems, the differences are more significant, even for common commands like selecting a loco. The differences used to be really very different, but Digitrax is getting better with their newer products – a point which I often make when discussing the user interface of the various DCC system. Here’s a specific example.

  • Zephyr: Press the LOCO key. Type in the loco address on the keypad. Press LOCO again.
  • UT4: Dial up the loco number on the thumbwheels, then press the SEL key.
  • UT2 (discontinued): Dial up the loco number on the thumbwheels, then press ACQ/DISP key.
  • DT300 (discountinued): Click the throttle knob you want to use to activate it. Press the SEL key. Turn the left and right throttle knobs to select the loco address you want. Press SEL again once you have the address showing in the display.
  • DT400: Click the thr