FORUM CLINIC: Picking the best DCC system

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
341

For what it is worth, I have a Zephyr as my command station, a DT400 and a UT4 throttle, so one of each of the current production model Digitrax throttles. Indeed there are some subtle differences between them, however the basic method of operation is very very similar as one would expect. Myself, and my 8 and 10 year old boys have no problem operating these throttles and swapping back and forth between them. We also periodically run trains on a large layout with a selection of older DT100’s thrown in for good measure and again, not an issue. I can not see how these minor issues could seriously detract from anyone’s enjoyment of running a Digitrax system? We are talking about a learning curve here of less than 1 minute. So I grant you the point that there are differences, but you are really splitting hairs here on a minor issue.

Joe, I also take slight issue with the statement that the PowerCab has the best upgrade path. You have even mentioned yourself that if you take the logical upgrade path of PowerCab-PowerCab + Smartbooster then to Powerhouse Pro that you end up with a boat anchor for a Smartbooster. In addition you end up with useless ancillary parts, and for that matter the 1.7amp booster circuit that came with the PowerCab in the first place. I know that you were driving at the point about duplex v simplex radio, but I don’t think it is a fair sweeping statement to cover all aspects of the upgrade path.

The Zephyr on the other hand has a very nice upgrade path where you are not left with a lot of redundant parts. I have added a 5A booster to my layout and still have the 2.5A booster of the Z powering a second power district. With the ability to add radio, detection and signalling one could make an argument that Digitrax actually has the better upgrade path.

In my opinion each company has taken a different approach to this. It is a matter of personal opinion which offers the best solution for any

342

Simon, I will only add to what you just wrote that all Digitrax DT throttles are two complete throttles in one handheld. Therefore it is possible to control two trains simultaneously, something I can’t do with my Power Cab or with a PH Pro system. The recall button on NCE will let you control more than one train but one at a time not simultaneously.

I am a Digitrax Super Chief user at my local club, a NCE user on a huge PH Pro powered system. I also own a Digitrax Zephyr for my home modules and I own a NCE Power Cab that I use as a Pro Cab on the PH Pro layout.

For my home needs I prefer the Zephyr because it is much more powerful then the Power Cab, more cabs are supported right out of the box, 2.5 amp. versus 1.7 for the power cab etc.

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Simon:

I agree with you, so if I said different somewhere, then I was mistaken or I mistyped something.

The PowerCab upgrade path to a ProCab is not very good, because you end up with extra parts. Now having said that, the other truth with NCE systems is they do not keep the main track powered when you go into programming mode, while the Digitrax systems DO keep the main track powered. If you start with a PowerCab, I recommend the next step be that you just go for the ProCab and don’t go to the SB3.

What you end up with if you take this approach with NCE is you get a system for running a programming track (the PowerCab) and a system for running your layout too. You can wire a toggle switch to the programming track so you can connect it to the layout, run the loco you want to program on to the programming track, then throw the toggle to program and connect to the PowerCab. Meanwhile, your main track stays powered by the ProCab, so the layout stays up.

And when you’re not using the programming track, the PowerCab dogbone throttle is a regular ProCab full-function dogbone throttle.

This way nothing is lost in the upgrade path and you get an NCE system with a separate programming track that’s useable during an op session just like Digitrax does. However, it’s also true that DCC has progressed to the point

344

Steve, your point is quite valid that for people looking at getting into DCC, Digitrax has mended a lot of their older ways. The newer stuff is much better all the way around – better manuals, more consistant user interface, and so on.

Yet, I don’t feel it’s fair to just sweep it all under the rug either. There are still differences between the command sequences to do the same thing with the Zephyr and a DT400 in other common functions like consisting. More differences than with NCE’s starter system and their top of the line system.

Even though the older Digitrax throttles are no longer produced, people should also be aware they may encounter them on Digitrax layouts.

For example, when I go run trains on my friend Charlie Comstock’s layout, he uses Digitrax. While I know how to read a Digitrax manual and understand how to use the system, I don’t have the system so I don’t commit the manuals to memory.

So I pick up a UT2 throttle and start looking for a select or loco button, but no dice. “Hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?” is my cry. “Dial up the number and press ACQ” is the reply that comes back. Okay, after a couple tries I get it to work, then I’m off.

Next train I get a UT4 throttle. Hey, no ACQ button. Again the cry goes out, “Hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?” The answer comes back, “Dail up the loco number and press the SEL key”. Oh, okay, got it. Doesn’t seem like this should be so hard, but oh well.

Next train, someone brought their DT400

345

I notice that all of the comparisons of minor differences in how locomotives are selected between different throttles and different manufacturers don’t include the ability to recall previously selected locomotives. If someone has say 8 DCC locomotives and their throttle can remember more than 8 then they may choose to simply recall a previosuly selected locomotive and not reacquire one by punching or dialing in its address. Another thought which comes to mind about how much weight someone will place on this function vs. other things like overall features, expandability and such. I know when I chose my system I saw all of the less filling/tastes great debates over how user friendly one system is vs another. I took that into consideration but it was a minor consideration for me and I weighed it against all of the other evaluation criteria. Lastly, I often see discussions where folks will waffle over one system vs another, especially when looking at the higher end systems and will chose the lower end system to save $100-150. When I think of this over the life of the system, this becomes the cost of one DCC equipped sound locomitve. If I were making that decision I’d opt to put off the purchase of one locomotive, especially if I thought I might upgrade in the future anyway.

346

I looked and looked. I read a few manuals. I played with a few at train shows. Then I chose the Digitrax Chief. Not the radio version. Well, not yet. It’s an easy enough upgrade.

I always think about the future, so I chose the one that could be expanded the most and the easiest.

347

Jeff:

Absolutely ease-of-use is only one of the many criteria you should be using to decide on the system that’s best for you. Ease and cost of expansion is another. What everyone around you is using is another (ease of getting support/able to buy fewer throttles because people can bring theirs).

And the list goes on …

As has been said before, there is no “best” system, only the best system for YOU.

348

I’ve been off line for a couple of days … come back and find lots of comments and great information. I do want to take the time to thank everyone for their input. Especially to Joe for the excellent responses to my questions… they were very helpful. By giving me the amps used by the locos, I can now calculate the max number of locos each system can handle.

I read a review about the PowerCab on another site (maybe tonys trains) and the author said when he added the 4th loco it would trip the breaker on the PowerCab. He didn’t say if they had sound decoders or not … or if they were in consist or 4 singles.

Personally, for me … Operating 5 locos (3 trains at once) would be an extreme. The track plan is for only 4x16 with 2 lines. More than a basic loop … but nothing extravagant.

The more recent conversations about upgrading (adding power boosters or complete systems) has also been a learning experience for me.

Simon … since you are experienced with a Zepher, do you find the 2.5 amps enough power to handle your needs? How many locos can it handle at one time.

I think the PowerCab control is great! But with some of the other features offered by the Zepher … I am leaning towards the Zepher and adding a ut4 for some walk around flexiblity. Who knows, next week I might change my mind! (I feel like a kid in a candy store, and I’m 58 year old!)

Thanks to all for the great forum and the comments. It is apprecated.

Kent

349

Kent when doing your maths with the Power Cab make sure you use 1.7 amp not 2 as it is listed on NCE web site. My own Power Cab is a 1.7 amps system.

Jack W.

350

Thanks Jack, I did notice that before. In the advertisement brochure it says 2 amps, but in the technical info it does say 1.7. That is one of the reasons I’m leaning towards the Zepher with its 2.5 capability.

Thanks,

Kent

351

Kent:

I think the whole question of amp capacity is over blown on small layouts where 1-2 trains at a time is the norm.

That extra 0.8 amps on the Zephyr is only valuable if you plan to be running more locos at the same time. The PowerCab will let you run up to 6 non-sound locos at once, while the Zephyr will let you run up to 9 non-sound locos at once. Do you really plan to run 9 locos at the same time?

There may be many good reasons to go with the Zephyr on a small layout, but the amp capacity differerence between the PowerCab and the Zephyr should not be the one deciding factor unless you plan to run more than 2 trains at a time with sound.

352

Kent, I have added a 5 amp DB150 booster to my layout. The booster handles all the main lines and the Zephyr booster handles the yard area. I never hit the limits of the Zephyr and probably did not need a booster. I wanted to get a DT400 throttle and got one in a low cost Empire Builder set that I purchased off e-Bay. I basically got the booster for $20 more than it would have cost me to get the DT400 from a web dealer. As to how many locos I can run in the Zephyr power district, I don’t actually know for sure. I might try an experiment to see how many it will handle.

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Nor is it fair to imply that folks will somehow be forced to use, or deal with the differences of, out-of-production throttles.

That’s a personal choice of the layout owner, not any kind of Digitrax requirement.

Besides, didn’t CVP make radio throttles for NCE at one time? I suppose you could still encounter those, too. But you’d be all over me if I said that’s a good reason to avoid NCE.

[quote user=“jfugate”]

For example, when I go run trains on my friend Charlie Comstock’s layout, he uses Digitrax. While I know how to read a Digitrax manual and understand how to use the system, I don’t have the system so I don’t commit the manuals to memory.

So I pick up a UT2 throttle and start looking for a select or loco button, but no dice. “Hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?” is my cry. “Dial up the number and press ACQ” is the reply that comes back. Okay, after a couple tries I get it to work, then I’m off.

Next train I get a UT4 throttle. Hey, no ACQ button. Again the cry goes out, “Hey, how do you assign this thing to a loco?” The answer comes back, "Dail up t

354

I have owned and operated my Digitrax Super Chief system for about ten years. I started with radio and got one DT100R throttle with my set (still have it in operation). When I wanted to expand my layout and needed another booster, I purchased an Empire Builder set because I got a DB150 and another DT100. I sent the DT100 to Digitrax to be upgraded to radio. I have had only a few OPS sessions but several open houses where I permitted visitors to run trains with the DT100. I dialed up the loco and the visitors had no problems operating the controls with simple instructions.

For operating I also purchased two UT-1 throttles. These were very easy to use and my visitors liked them. They were limited to two digit addressing. I sold them because thy could not be upgraded to radio.

I have since purchased two DT300R throttles and find them as easy to uses as the DT100. Most visitors and/or operators do not program during an operating session so the throttle is used to stop and go, and most visitors can use them with a few simple instructions.

I purchased a DT400R throttle as I was advised it would be great for programing. I never learned to use it for programing as I migrated to Decoder Pro. I do keep it for an extra operating throttle.

All of my future digitrax throttle purchases will be DT4. They are easy to use. The entire DT4 throttle manual is only four pages long and can be downloaded for the Digitrax web site. I also have simple one page “cheat sheets” regarding the operation of the DT100, DT300 and DT400 throttles…hey sometimes I forget!

I do not believe the mix of throttles will be a problem. I have asked this question of other Digitrax owners with few complaints.

I have an off layout programing track with a computer interface. If a locomotive nends programing, I opt to remove it from the layout for the programing. My programing track is also a 6ft test track so

355

Simon, Joe …

Thank you both for your comments. As always they are appreciated.

As far as the number of trains (locos) I would have running; Ultimately, I would say 3 trains … containing 5 locos. 3 with dcc & sound, 2 with dcc only. ( 1 steam & 2 sets of A/B desiels). Planned layout size is 4x16. It would be nice if the zepher or the powercab could handle all of it without needing additional boosters for having to get a larger system.

I would NOT be apposed to getting a Digitrax Super Chief or ProCab if I found a decent used one on e-bay at a reduced price … but Im not going to hold my breath on finding it! lol

Thanks again gentlemen…

Kent

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Mr Fugate

I would like to thankyou for starting this thred as it has helped me decide what system to go for.I’m not that sharp with computers or dcc but am going to take the plunge

thanks again

Gav.

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Gav … Which system have you decided on?

Kent

358

So, has anyone seen or used the new Bachmann Dynamis? I saw that they have started shipping, and I wonder how they compare to the Digitrax and NCE (similar price range) systems.

359

When I convert to DCC, budgetary constraints will probably force me to get an intro level DCC system and a couple of decoders. I currently have 4 “DCC-ready” locos, 2 fairly new DC locos, and 8 older (as in-1980 or earlier) pure DC models. Naturally, most of these older locos have sentimental value, and I wouldn’t really want to quit running them completely. I know I can install decoders in the DCC ready ones, and can probably get the 2 newer DC ones up and running. However, I’m not convinced that I will ever be able to convert the old dinosaurs.

Ideally, I would like to run the old locos simultaneously with DCC locos, but I recognize that this may not be possible. Alternatively, I would like to be able to run the old DC locos at different times, without a lot of complicated block or A-B switch wiring.

So my question is, which is the most DC-friendly of the intro systems? Is there one that can run one DC loco along with one or two DCC locos simultaneously? Or am I stuck with, at a mininum, an A-B switch and keeping the old DC power pack.

Any insights would be appreciated.

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I think the Digitrax Zephyr is the only entry level system that will allow you to run one DC loco at the same time with DCC locos. This would be a good way for you to keep running those old locos.

Also, your old DC power pack can be used as an extra throttle with the Zephyr. It would be limited to speed and direction controls only but could come in handy when running more than one train or with more than one operator.

Lenz also allows one DC loco but it would cost more than the Zephyr. Not sure about EasyDCC systems.