I was under the impression MR made the forum rules.
The rules I suggested are for this Forum Clinic that I’m hosting … no need to get your panties in a wad, On30 – as my daughter likes to tell me if I try to make a big deal out of something that’s not. [swg]
Joe, you are absolutely right about that. I’m also into webdesign and I have worked as a programmer as well. The goal for me when building an app is that the user must be able to use the app without the manual. If I succeed I know that the app is user friendly. I try very hard to leave the complicated coding under the surface. Often when I talk to other people they think that an app is advanced just because it’s very hard to use. I think that is completely wrong. The app is advanced if the user can use it without any problems and still do complicated things with it. It’s easy to f
I’ve never been able to put it so succinctly, but I couldn’t agree more. Even without realizing it, I’ve always found myself favoring interfaces that provided “one button per function”.
To some extent, it’s why I moved to JMRI and running the layout via computer. Despite the fact that I did (still do) dislike sitting at a terminal rather than walking around throttle-in-hand, the “soft” interface (i.e. a screen rather than “hard” buttons") means JMRI offered a great deal of “one button per function” operability.
My interest in the whole topic is really driven by just that. I want to get back to running the layout “by hand” rather than from computer and am seeking the best way to do so. Thank you for a post that (at least for me personally) really exposed the core of what I need to seek out.
Actually, I didn’t see where YOU posted any suggested rules until I was accused of my panties bein wadded up. Quit lookin under my skirt.
Thanks for your great answer, very interesting to read.
Electro,
I have used guitar processors and recording gear for the past thirty years. Your synth. example is right on…Man how I hated those boxes that would force you to scroll through 20 menus to change a sound level…You knew you were in trouble when all that was on the face of the device was six buttons and an LCD single line window…
The most recent guitar processors are almost back to square with one button, one function… Now if we could do something about poorly designed hard disk recorders…Sorry for the digression here…back to trains.
Jim, I have to agree with Joe’s initial comment. You would be mistaken, as well, to walk into a community hall dealing with “Managing Your Money”, and asking how many people in the audience are millionaires. I’ll bet no hands go up. But you would be in error to assume that there were few millionaires in the city.
You club has its own culture, ways of doing what they do the way they do it, and the reasoning behind it. Generalizing to the railroading population at large is a stretch without also polling another twenty or thirty clubs scattered throughout the country.
Just my observation. [:)]
Joe,
New system buzz? Is that when I took my PE out of the box, ran two wires to a piece of flex track and then giggled for about an hour watching an engine run back and forth while ringing the bell? And then calling the wife in with a “look at this!!! Its DCC!!! No toggle switches!!!” If this is it, then I have it…big time.
Seriously. I agree. Right now there is not a single thing that I don’t like about my PE. It’s limitations are minor. Glitches are probably my fault. You’ll have to kill me to get my PE from me and I’ll slug anyone that talks bad about it. In time a person does remove those rose colored glasses and that’s when, I think, that an opinion is much more objective, accurate and helpful.
I do love your rule that a person has to post a couple of shortcomings. No system is perfect.
Boy does THAT bring back memories… Dad had a recording studio equipped with 3 full synths (with keyboards), several modules, a controller keyboard, MIDI patch bays, and the computer to track it all… Even within a single manufacturer things weren’t always compatable… The magic 5 letters, R-O-L-A-N-D had a new one every month, and each one made the old obsolete… with it’s newer sounds… I would LOVE to have a Roland TD-12 drum synth but I’m not willing to pay the bucks for it… The constant button pressing on the GR30 Guitar synth to get from one sound patch to another Really gets annoying too…
To bring it back to trains, I have to agree 100%… A button for each function, or at least the most commonly used functions, has become a must have… It’s just no fun to have to do a lot of scrolling to get where I want to be… running the trains…
Jeff
Thanks for the system info postings, guys.
I have an op session today, so I won’t be doing much on this thread yet, but I wanted to tell you what I hope to do for the next posting on ease of use.
I’m going to post an image of each command station and we’ll step through setting up a consist on each, and then I’ll give you my assessment as to which is easier to use.
And since I will show you how it’s done on each system, if you don’t like my assessment, you can judge for yourself. [swg]
But today, it’s on to my op session. I’ll be posting an op session report over on my site in the next few days, in case you’re interested.
bump
bump and also a “Shout Out” to Joe for doing this! Between this thread and the other thread “DCC Throttle Shoot Out” I’m learnin’ a hoop of good info!
Thanks for doing this!
Joe, are you out there?..
Just patiently waiting for the next installment on this topic [:)]
This is off the topic of DCC, but is in reply to an earlier post, so skip this unless you’re curious
Without trying to raise any hackles, your argument is incorrect, Joe. I’ve been designing aircraft for nearly two decades, and a pilot about as long, so let me explain.
The reason the airplane and the automobile user interfaces behave differently is because the vehicles are fundamentally different. An automobile navigates in two dimensions, while the airplane navigates in three. Rudder pedals steer the airplane on the ground because rudder pedals control the yaw, or left-right pointing of the aircraft, in the air. So they also control that on the ground. The steering wheel (“yoke” on an airplane) controls roll, or tilt, of the aircraft wings via the ailerons. There is no corresponding control on an automobile. A combination of rudder pedal and yoke input controls turns in an aircraft in the air (the ailerons are the primary turning agent, with the rudder assisting - different even than a submarine, another three-dimension navigator).
I could go on a lot more, but probably most folks don’t care anyway, so I’ll stop. Suffice it to say, though two different systems may get you to the same ultimate goal, the methods employed to do so may dictate very different interfaces. It depends on what is required in of the control system.
By the way - the auto and airplane controls developed over ten years apart, not at roughly the same time. Autpmobile controls developed basically in the very late 1890s and early 1900s, with some refine
Yes, I’m here … I’m pulling together the examples from the manuals to demonstrate ease of use. It’s an ambitious undertaking, with pictures, diagrams and step-by-step examples of making a consist for each system. The idea is to allow you to do a side-by-side comparison.
It’s been a busy week here with me doing some things for MR, like shooting the cover to their new Realistic Layouts issue. And then my sister loses her apartment and ends up on our doorstep, so that shoots a couple evenings consoling her. You know how it goes.
This weekend, I hope to get this thread back on track! [:D]
Mark:
Thanks for your comments … my argument is all theoretical anyhow and what I suggested is not what happened, probably for good reason as you mention.
The main point is that you can make user interfaces simple and obvious enough you don’t need a manual most of the time once you “get it”. That’s also true of DCC systems and I hope to demonstrate that soon with the next official post on this clinic.
[:D]I just couldn’t resist - the engineer in me coming out, I guess.
But your main point is excellent, and one that should be kept uppermost in mind by anyone who creates a product. From my perspective, the second most important feature of any product (the first being that the product can do what it’s supposed to do) is its user interface. Far too many people don’t give that enough consideration, and we wind up with great products that no one wants because they’re such a pain to use!
in fact, the one thing that sold me on NCE for my DCC system was that it has what is, to me, the easiest-to-master user interface. I think I could learn any of them, but I didn’t want to have to. For the way my mind works, NCE was most intuitive. But if someone else’s mind works a little differently, another vendor’s product may have a more intuitive interface to them.
any one that works
I agree with waltersrails.
ICMR
Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]