THE FOLLOWING SCRIPT REPRESENTS AN INTERROGATION BY A UNIFORMED OFFICER OF THE GOVERNMENT OF A SUSPECTED “TERRORIST” AS NOW REDEFINED BY THAT GOVERNMENT.
Yes officer I am watching trains. Why? Well, if you go to the airport you’ll see people watching airplanes and if you go to the docks you will see people watching ships. No different. Oh. You are asking them too?
No I am not the only person who does this. Here are copies of several national magazines for people who watch trains. Yes officer they are published in Wisconsin or New Jersey or other places in the USA, not in Yemen or Iraq. This card in my wallet shows that I belong to an organization intereted in this particular railroad or in railroads in general. No I did not print this on my computer officer, this is a real organization. Here is their address and website. They are registered with the government as 501(c)(3) organizations in fact.
Yes officer I do take photographs and I note the number of the locomotives and keep notes. There are books published with the numbers of the locomotives and I own those books. they are not a secret of the railroad. They paint the number right on the side of the cab. Yes officer I sometimes photograph freight cars if they are interesting to me. Yes officer cars with military loads would be interesting to me. So would a load of farm machinery. You are correct this is a very long distance lens.
Yes officer I have been watching trains here for the last 20 years, and in fact I have often waved to you as you drive by and you have waved back. It is rare for me to be the only person here who watches trains. There have been photos published in national magazines that were taken here and a national magazine article described this as a “hot spot” and recommended others come here to watch trains. I am sure the railroad is aware of this, yes officer. They published a photo taken here in their annual calendar a few years ago. No I did not ask their permission – I am standing on a pu
Better safe than sorry! Pictures of U.S. trains and locomotives were found with other terrorists’ paraphanalia. Somehow, I don’t believe these people are railfans on their days off.
I like to take pictures of old buildings that in my opinion have a significant architectural beauty. Many train depots and stations meet this criteria, not to mention federal and county courthouses across the country,
A couple of months ago in Lawton, Oklahoma, a federal security guard allowed me to take picuters of downtown Lawton’s mall, its Lawtonian hotel, the county courthouse, the city hall, but when I turned my camera to the beautiful federal courthouse there, the security guard threatened to arrest me and take my camera even though I was on city’s public property. It must be a sign of the times, but I did not take that picture.
Yes, you hit it right on the head, this is a sign of the times we live in. With no disrespect meant at all to anyone, but with a liberal dose of realism thrown in, if the original post was representative of a real conversation between a railfan and a police officer, the “smart ***” sarcastic remarks of the railfan would land him/her in trouble, and with no surprise at all. Again, sign of the times.
I railroad for a living, and you guys can take photos of me and my consist anytime. If we allow the terrorist to curtail our civil liberities, the right to travel to, be present at, or photograph public building & places then they have allready succeded in destroying the very thing we are fighting to save. They have turned us into them. I for one dont want to have to carry national ID, or be required to “show my papers” when I go from Texas to New Mexico. One of the most sacred of our rights, the need for police to have just cause to stop or detain a person is what allows you to drive to work, sit in the park or take a date out to eat without being stopped or interogated randomly. It seems like common sense has fled the land. And yes, I am a railfan too. I like watching trains, if you didnt like the same, and want to be able to do so freely, what are you doing reading this? Do you think “big brother” should be allowed to tap you dsl connection or phone link just because you read about trains?
If the railroads look at us as a threat, rather than an asset to their security, that is their problem. In my 20-plus years of being trackside, I have reported several situations to the RR that could have ended up in disaster, had I not intervened. One such instance sticks out in my mind. I was at Schoolcraft, Michigan years ago, In the evening. When I arrived at the depot I walked around to the diamond, as I normally would do. When I got to the diamond, I noticed about 6 inches of the rail missing next to the frog. There was a RR phone box right at the diamond, it wasn’t locked, so I picked up the phone and got the dispatcher. I told him of the situation, and he said that he would notify the approaching train. The train showed up, stopped, and the crew got down and looked things over. They thanked me profusely, saying that if they had hit that at track speed, they would probably have dumped them. More chatter on the radio followed, and after some decision-making on the other end, the train proceeded across the diamond at walking speed. Everybody was happy that night. But, to my amazement, the next time I visited Schoolcraft a few weeks later, the phone box was securely locked. If I had seen another problem then, it would have meant a long walk to a pay-phone, and assuming I could get the appropriate number from information, waiting on hold, etc, etc…
RAILROAD OFFICIALS, we are your allies, not your foes. With the demise of trackside employees, such as tower operators, station agents, etc. We are your “Eyes”. Please don’t treat us as criminals.
Todd C.
The script is pure fiction and I am sorry I did not make this clearer. My point to the “sarcastic” answers was, all this sudden realization by “authorities” that, gee, we know where trains are, we know how to listen to them, we know when they are coming, we know what the loads are and what the engine numbers are ----- there is an entire industry devoted to telling railfans all of this stuff! It doesn’t take spying! The authorities are standing around gaping at the railfan world as if it just hatched from an egg!
Although we realize that this story was done “tongue in cheek” the sad fact of the matter is that this is the world we live in today. The “enemy” looks like anybody else, does not wear a uniform, waves no distinct flag and sings no national songs. In WWII we had Hitler, Tojo and Mussolini, today we have Bin Laden and Hussein but they are only figure heads of a terrorist organization infrastructure that is faceless and nameless. Small wonder our government and even the railroads are running scared, and dare I say pananoid?
It is amazing how old tenets of the law are discarded. If it truly is a illegal, then it violates the old standard that ‘it’s not an invasion of privacy if anyone on a public sidewalk can look into your bedroom.’ Standing in a public place and looking around shouldn’t be an issue.
Also, although I am sure terrorists watch trains too, chances are the actual evil deed they would do wouldn’t likely be at a public train watching spot. For that matter, they probably watch from the bushes, not out in the open.
Sure, we all wince when authorities miss the obvious signs of trouble, but some common sense needs to be mixed in - like, no train watching at power plants or under bridges, for instance!
The gov’t and rr’s may be paranoid and/or running scared, but I’m with Ed Houston - if we ever get where we can’t be on public property to stand and watch/and or photograph what we love then the enemy has already won and there’s nothing to fight for. I DO NOT plan for any terrorist(s) to interfere with what i’ve spent my life doing (watching, not photo’ing)
We have all lost something on 9/11, some much more than others. We also lost something with the Kennedy assassination and the attack on Pearl Harbor. Then as now we have to accomodate the loss of some freedom to ensure our continued way of life. Think you’ve lost some freedom of movement, have you been through an airport lately? Photography by rail enthusiasts is, at best, frivilous except to those who are doing so for their careers. To criticize through sarcastic remarks and fiction does a disservice to the law enforcement people who, on any given day, would give their lives for you. If I have to identify myself to an officer, I will do so gladly and be grateful he or she is there. Shame and double on all of you who whine that you are “inconvenienced” by this precaution.
You know, my dad was at Pearl, and ended up in the occupation force in Japan. Funny, he never gave up his belief that this was the best country in the world to live in. He should know, an immigrants son, first in his family to become a citizen by birth. Both he and his brother served, WWII, Korea and Vietnam.
You would think someone who spent his entire adult life in uniform would be bullish on this homelane security stuff. But he pointed out that the ***, and the Japanese military both came to power because the population of those countries allowed them to. Homeland, Fatherland, sound sorta alike? The constitution states, no bones about it, that our goverment is to be headed by a president elected by the citizenry, not one appointed by the military. A civilian is the comander in chief for a reason. The average german civilan sat by, too scared to do anything, while millions were killed in the name of fatherland security.By the time they realized what was happening, it was too late. I know, because my grandfathers brother died there. I am a american by birth, of german descent. I belive you, or anyone else has a right to go anywhere in this country you chose to, by whatever means you want to. If he wants to take pictures of trains from a public place, well, it called a public place for a resaon. We live in a open society by choice, and yes, there will be more Pearl Harbors, more Kennedys assinated, and more Sept. 11s. That is the price we pay to live free. Free of national IDs, free of random interogation by the “state” police, free to take pictures of trains, or not to take pictures. Free to log onto a forum where you can express your point of view and not worry that the NGK, or the KGB, SS or FBI will be knocking on your door in the next few minutes because you wrote something that “seems” suspicious. Iv been to South Africa, and to Russia, where you need a permit to fart, and I couldnt beat feet fast enought to get out of there and back home, where I can say the president sucks and not get shot for it.
Ed, thank you for your remarks. You make many valid observations, but the fact is, this country is at war. A war that is far more incidious than anything we have seen before. Such conditions warrant extraordinary measures. During WWII, and this is just as much a threat, many freedoms we all take for granted were altered or suspended. Gasoline was rationed, blackouts were constantly employed and we didn’t have the advanced media technology to tell us what was going on.
Ed, most hobbies are frivilous and I have taken as many railroad photos as many others who visit this site. So are my other hobbies frivilous, but if a small sacrafice in any of them will help us all, consider it done. Cooperating with law enforcement can not, under any circumstance, be compared Teutonic states, barbaric dictators, weakness or ambivilence. On this point, we sharply disagree. Your mention of a comparison with *** is over the line.
I have read other of your posts and conclude that you are probably a good railroader. I’ve been on both sides of your concerns there too…but that’s another issue. Hope you have a good and safe day. God bless you and yours this Thanksgiving. gdc
I will gladly identify myself to any police officer that asks for ID as well. And, yes, I have been through airports recently.
The point is, searching passengers boarding airplanes is a sensible activity to catch the bad guys. Questioning photographers at popular train watching spots or historic landmarks is not likely to be very productive.
There is a balance between caution and paranoia - it is called common sense.
Sorry,I didnt intend to compare you to the ***. And yes, co-operation with police is a good pratice to follow. But when we allow our elected representives to suspend some of our rights? And when did congress declare war on anyone. What has happened is a vague refrence to a “war on terrorism”. How do you fight a war with a political ideal?And yes, in WWII technology was crude. So blackouts made sense. How about the rounding up of the american born Japanese?
Would you advocate rounding up all the Muslims in this country? We could ship em all of to New Jeresy. That ought to be punishment enought.
When congress declares war on a particular country, or a well defined group of people, then I will back it up 100%. And a big diffirence between then and now is then, the only info the general populace ever heard was what the “war dept” released. Censorship was allowed, even encouraged. There is a big diffrence in coperating with a law enforcement officer who is enforcing and following the law, and one who, by proxie, is exceeding the law. But your right about one thing, argue with or get lippy with a cop, and you are treading on slippery ground. But if you dont watch your goverment, who will? To blindly trust those in power to do the right thing can lead to some scary things. Is your hobby frivilous? Well, the people who publish and host this site seem to take it serious. Would you really feel comfortable living in a society where hobbies are forbidden?, Whats next? What if your living was dependant on that hobby. Could O. Winston Link have become so popular in that society?
The constitution give the president certain powers, but only if a formal declaration of war exsist and is received from the congress. He has limited descretionary powers to impose certain restrictions. If we are going to war, then lets do it under the laws we cherish. If yer gonna go, the go, fast, and carry a big stick. If we arnt, then give the NSA and the CIA an extra few million, and tell them to sic-em.
I love the fact tha
for all the long winded responses and all the hype being put out you think you guys was running for office. The just of the matter is that the railroads have put out memos and it goes like this, you are reminded to report any unusual or suspicious activity observed on or near the railroad right of way by the quickest means availble. now if you are standing at crossing at grade taking pictures (railroaders dont like their pictures taken). you will be reported. so no matter what you want to complain about remeber the people you insult on here may be the ones that are turning you in out there. railroads own plenty of ground around the main lines that may be used for other things now but are still owned by the railroad. and if you are on this property you are trespassing. there is a stretch of land that people come out and hunt on. they think its part of the farmers land they hunt when in reality its railroad property. and are delt with accordingly.
The cargo referred to in the piece was equipment on flatcars. Of course a lot of tank cars are labelled for the material they carry. Or there are hazardous materials placards …