How steep an incline could a prototype Shay or Heisler or Climax claw its way up? I’ve read as low as 5% for a maximum and as high as 10%. Is someone pulling my leg on this one?
Stu
Stu,
The Cass Scenic Railroad boasts an 11% grade at the end of it’s run up to Bald Knob
Shay #6 was originally owned by the Western Maryland and ran up a 9% grade on the Chaffe branch.
So, I would think that anything between 0 and 11% grade would be quite plausible for you - unless you want to go with a cog railway. Mount Washington Cog Railway boasts a 37% grade, with an average grade of over 25%. [:O]
Tom
11%. Yikes. Makes me feel better about having 6% grades in my switchback section. Thanks again, Tom!
Stu
When researching some about 10 years ago before building my Shay route, I read somewhere that Shays could normally accomplish up to 15% unassisted, whereafter they would use steam donkeys for assistance if steeper.
Unfortunately I have not been able to find that nowadays, as I’m trying to research that some more, thinking about adding a heisler, and wondering what limitations they had. I modeled up to 8% on mine with that info I can’t find anymore.
Duane
I have a copy of a Climax Patent Geared Locomotive catalog that shows what the locos could haul at up to 10 percent grades for the A, B and C type locomotives. Logging roads were rough and very tight curves.
A few pictures are in the catalog showing their locos hauling log cars at up to 15 degree grades on some different logging roads. Usually with loads, the locos where headed down in these pictures. Some loads were cut wood and some loads were logs going to be cut.
Rich
I don’t have the source right now but a few roads would use a steam operated winch at the top of the hill to help put the loco and cars up a steeper grade. Loggers did whatever they had to for moving logs. Steam donkey could be setup almost anywhere.
When the area was cleared of usable trees, all the equipment, rails, ties would be removed for use in another area. Labor was cheap…
Rich
This old picture shows a Climax with 3 carloads of logs on a 15% grade:
I wouldn’t say that is typical, but it does give an indication of what geared steam locomotives are capable of doing. I went to Cass several years ago… very impressive to see a Shay handling several cars, on extreme grades and wet rail (raining during the trip), all without slipping. If you like geared steam and haven’t been to Cass, GO!
- James
Yup, Cass Scenic Railway is on my bucket list. Purt near the top, too. Just gotta cross a continent to get there…
Enjoy
Lee
The business end of big “6”, Cass RR
The Cass example is a good one. Most of the route up the mountain is at about 5%, and then near the very top of the tourist line there is a noticable increase in grade for a relatively short distance, and that is the 11% section. It should be noted that this 11% portion was not used when they were actually logging there, but was added as part of the tourist operation to take the trains more directly to the overlook. When it was a logging line, the tracks ran more to the left (west?) as one approached the summit and then circled around the knob of the hill to reach nearly the same place as the overlook today. That steepest section does cause a different exhaust note from the shays!
Logging lines generally had the advantage of having the timber on the top of the mountain, so they were hauling empties up grade and had to be careful of run-aways as gravity helped the loaded log cars down the mountain. On the actual loading spurs, it is certain that there were short portions of track on many lines that exceeded the 11% for short distances.
Modelers can tend to ask “what is the steepest grade actually used” and then duplicate that to accomplish grade separation or altitiude in the least possible distance. The engineers laying out these logging lines did what they could to reduce grades (and their expense and danger) whenever they could.
The book Steam & Thunder In The Timber by Michael Koch states (p81): “Some of the early tramroads had grades of up to 16 percent, although most were under 10 percent. Geared locomotives had little diffiulty in negotiationg the 16 percent grades with a load of empties; coming back posed even less of a problem, but reliable brakes were a requisite.” Another insight is gained from the Mount Mitchell Railroad in North Carolina, which climbed to 5,789 feet above sea level. Jeff Lovelace’s book Mout Mitchell: Its Railroad & Toll R
i have looked through several catalogs and it appears that there are claims of 10-12%(nothing about how much tonnage the engine could move up that steep of grade). The advantage of a geared steam engine is that it has all of it;s weight on the drivers, and in the case of a medium to large Shay, there are 3 pistons and 6 power impulses that are amplified by the gear reduction in the truck. This would result in smoother power output.
Jim
The Climax catalog I have does how tonnage specs for A, B and C type locos.
Below is a link to the catalog I have. Go to page 5.
I did a search for, climax locomotive catalog and that came up, much to my surprise.
http://www.climaxlocomotives.com/catalog/
Rich