I have 4 HO scale Athearn Ready To Repair that need new motors. I have 2 SD 50’s (one of them has eaten 4 decoders) a SD 40-2 and a Dash 9.
Could the Athearn Genesis motors be a drop in replacement? Will my flywheels work?
I got good uses out of the 3 I bought new (1 SD 50 came off E Bay and i know why it was there! [banghead]) They did not hold up like my Proto 1000’s and 2000’s. I all so have to admit I did run them hard when I got them. 3 of them have around 300 hours on them pulling a good sizes train.
Reason I am asking about the Genesis motor is I don’t want to do any grinding to the chassis.
I don’t think the Genesis motors will fit Athearn RTR or Blue Box locomotives – you need to get the original Athearn motor, part number 84087, HO High Performance Motor with Flywheels, priced at $28.98 on the latest part listing I have on hand. You need to also be aware that these new motors may have the hex drive flywheels instead of the older dogbone, so the drive shafts may also need to be changed, or you can go to Athearn’s web site, click on “Parts” and download their entire parts listing and see if they have the motor without flywheels…
Athearn doesn’t make motor replacement easy because of their newer type of flywheels and drive shafts.
The Genesis motor mounts are totally different and the motors are not the same size.
And while you’re at it, pick up some of the new motor mounts that use a screw instead of being a pressure fit; Athearn part number 84028, New Motor Mount Package, priced at $4.98 for two sets.
Their Athearn motors almost all drop in fits and the run great.
One more thing, I barely know what an SD50 is because it is way out of my era and I just don’t care to spend time keeping up on stuff that does not interest me, but having delt with Athearn locomotives since about 1968, I just don’t understand all the “Ready to Repair” type bashing.
I will say, back in the old days not every one was perfect out of the box, BUT, you did not have to be a master mechanic to get them to run well.
Oh, I should just shut up, this is the same view I have about Bachmann - what a bargin, even if they need a tweak here and there.
Most of them are out of my era - but I do have the Alco RS units - mine are very nice dispite the stories of others.
I’ve heard the Genesis motors will fit, but I have never tried it myself. Another option is to purchase an A-Line motor cradle weight and use a Kato motor with their hex flywheels already attached to it. I have done it and the results so far have been great.
Sheldon, not bashing the Athearn RTR, that is why I stated I got go use out of the 3 I bought new. Far as the Hump Motors, I have installed one in a Blue Box Super Weight F7 A. Not Super Impressed but it does run OK. Makes a little racket above 50% power.
That “racket” is not the motor - its the drive. Those F7 drives tend to have noisy drive shafts, that’s why Proto redesigned the drive shaft when they cloned the drive.
The nump motors in my RDC’s, Same ones that fit the other units, are quiet with the Ernst gear sets I have in them, but yes in my old set of Athearn F units still noisy - its the drive shafts.
Will, I just checked and Ulrich does carry the motors. Ulrich Model Trains is the best internet company I have ever used, they are a class act!
Sheldon Far as the racket, it is the motor not the trucks. But, I need to work on the install. My F7 A uses screws not the rubber mounting pads. Screws are just a tad to long so motor is not tight. Need to file down the screws for a tighter fit.
Main reason I say the Hump Motors are OK and not great is they still draw higher power than I hoped for. Still way in the safe limits for DCC but not as low as my Proto motors. Other reason is the Hump Yard Motor is slower than my B unit Blue Box Motor. I had to slow down the B unit top speed to speed match it to the A unit with the Hump Motor.
For other that maybe thinking about Hump Yard Motors, don’t let me scare you off! For only $20.95 plus shipping they are still a good buy. But, mine did take a lot of grinding to get it to fit the F7 chassis. That is why I was asking about the Genesis motor’s.
Lots of different types of motors will work. I’ve used A-Line, Mashima, Overland and Kato in Athearn mechanisms. You may need to grind away parts of the Athearn frame and/or build up a mount to get the new motor shafts to line up properly. I haven’t used the commercial “cradles” to do this, but have been successful using stock plastic mounts that come with Kato motors, which drop right into the Athearn frame and can attach using the Kato screws (again, you may have to grind a bit of metal here and there for clearance). In other cases, I’ve built up a couple layers of foam tape or styrene shims.
If you’re enterprising, you may also be able to adapt the different drive line configurations to be compatible. I used the original Kato flywheels in an old (pre-RTR) Athearn SD40-2, and carefully filed a hex shape into the Athearn universal ball joints that install into the flywheels, allowing them to press fit into the Kato flywheels’ hex-shaped recesses like they were meant to be there. I’ve also swapped worm shafts around and otherwise created various Frankenstein mechanisms, all of which perform much better than using the Athearn open-frame motors. It just takes a little perserverance and learning how the drive parts fit together.
Well Ken, I have to admit, being in DC, I don’t pay any attention to current draw, I never bother to measure it.
Each of my eight Aristo Train Engineer radio throttles is powerd by its own 5 amp power supply - so even if a 4 unit lash up drew 1 amp each - not a problem.
Seems odd that it would have “eaten” four decoders, I’ve never had trouble with decoders in Athearn blue box engines shorting out. I suspect maybe your decoders aren’t set to handle the power draw of the motor. Another possibility - are you sure you completely isolated the motor from the frame??
Stix, that SP SD -50 engine is cursed! It does not eat the decoder right away (RTR are DCC Ready) but chews on them a few hours before it shallow’s! I have cleaned the trucks out, did the tooth paste trick and it stills eats them.
Other thing it could be is the stock P C board, but I am not wasting another decoder on it. New motor hard wired or it will become a dummy!
Vincent, thanks for the link! I will see yo in the dinner!
My guess from your info is that the lightboard has a problem with it, not the motor. I’d try a lightboard - replacement decoder (or hardwire) with the existing motor, and see what happens. BTW TCS decoders have a “no questions asked” replacement policy on decoders, hope you used them so you didn’t have to pay for a new one each time one burned out.
I have 8 athearn RTR’s and 12 Blue boxes with several hundred hours running time on all of them and have yet to fry a decoder (other than miswiring during installation). I have had locomotives shutdown and stop running due to overheating of the decoder (mostly the soundtraxx units). I suspect something else is going on…I use a combination of different decoders including soundtraxx, NCE, and Digitrax. my SD-40T-2 tunnel motors (lashup of 3) have pulled 70-100 car trains for several hours before having a thermal shutdown (a nice feature of the soundtraxx decoders) but I have yet to destroy a decoder from excessive current draw.
I have fried a few decoders in Athearn locomotives either because of a loose wire touching something its not supposed to or I messed up on insulating the motor. I have had poor luck using the circuit boards that come with the locos in the RTR models and ditch them. for some of the older RTR’s that still have the giant light in the cab, I completely remove the metal piece from the frame. I drill and tap a 2-56 hole and solder the decoder pick up wire to a brass screw. I hard wire most of my locomotives, even those that have circuit boards.
I always nip off the small copper knobs on the bottom of the motor that contact the frame and use a piece of electrical tape to insulate the bottom of the motor.
Also important is the routing of wires. If wires get caught in the drive shafts or between the flywheel and the shell it can cause wear or tear the wire completely. This can cause a short and fry a decoder as well.
I have never replaced the motors in my locomotives as I have found that they are generally not what is causing the issue.
I sure wish I could say the same! Main thing that has side line my RTR is bearing noise. (not counting the cursed SP SD 50 that ate 4 decoders) While my SD40-2 still runs well and has never ate a decoder it squeals like that darn Pig in the car insurances commercial! Either I have used the wrong oil, did not oil as often as I should, over oiled or just plain worked it to hard!
Reason I posted this question is because of this engine.
When I run it, the other engines slow down? I have a Digitrax SEB with 5 amps. Even with only 2 blue box engines, one kit bash Dash 9 using a Mashima and the RTR dash 9. It just started having problems. It all so started squealing so I side lined it. Jeffery suggested using ATF fluid and the squealing is gone. But now, well it pulling down the whole layout? I have yet to test the power draw, but if you pull the engine and the other trains speed up, that tells you something.
Your description of how this locomotive draws so much current that the other trains slow down suggests to me there is an electrical short in one of the trucks or the frame. If it was a problem with the motor drawing too much current, your decoder would have burned out by now from the current overload.
Take it apart and look for stray metal shavings, a loose spike or track nail, or stranded wire touching something that it shouldn’t.
I would suggest using labelle teflon grease instead of oil. Oil tends to work in the short run but it does not last. I would strip the trucks down to gears, clean them off with an old toothbrush and reassemble. This gets any old debris and gunk build up out of the gears and gives them a clean surface. I would generally put a dab on the top gear where the worm gear meshes. you may need to put one or two dabs to get a good amount in. I wouldn’t do anymore than that. I spin the trucks to get the grease into all the gears. I would also suggest that you use the grease on all the bearings (the little square pieces on the axles and on the worm gear shafts). The teflon grease is plastic safe and will not cause warping.
I would also suggest a drop of oil (make sure it is of the non-conductive variety as there are some oils out there that do conduct electricity) on the bearing at each end of the motor (where the shaft goes into the flywheels). Since the bearings (technically bushings) appear to sintered they will actually absorb oil so it doesn’t take much.
Another suggestion is check the alignment of the motor. Sometimes when it is removed and reinserted it needs a firm push to make sure the plastic inserts are properly seated. If not the flywheels will rub on the shell and make an incredible racket. Also check that there are no wires between the motor and the shell. This will cause the motor to be misaligned as well.
Automatic transmission fluid is nasty stuff and can distort plastic. I would be weary of using in on anything but a brass loco. It is a very good paint stripper too.
You are correct that something is seriously wrong if a single locomotive is causing other trains to slow down with a 5 amp system.
What do you mean if you pull the engine the other trains speed up?
Far as what did I mean when I pull the Dash 9 the other speed up? Just that, I shut down the Dash 9 the other engines speed up with out touching the throttle.
I will open the engine up and check for rubbing and stuff in the trucks. I have found it strange that it has not eaten a decoder with it pulling so much power.
Will all so test the amps the motor pulls.
I still wonder if it could be the P C board. What resistor vale would I need so i can uses the stock lights?
Ken, some decoders have built in resistors for athearn’s bulbs. IIRC, the TCS A6X and A4X have them. Alternatively, you could change the bulbs to LEDs but it’d take some work.
