Getting Back Into It

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
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Hi Everyone,

I am starting to get back into the hobby again after a 40 plus yr pause due to life’s priorities. Just a little back ground on me. My last operating layout was the Ho Railroad that Grows, lot of fun building but issues running it. I was going to start the Atlas Central Midland but life had other plans, so my question is to everyone who stayed with it is, do I start over with Dcc or stay with Dc because I think it will impact how I go about building the layout. I know it’s probably been asked alot already, but it looks like this hobby has change alot.

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You will find people here who say to stay with DC and others that say you must switch. Much has to do with how you envision the layout - how complex is it, how many engines, will there be multiple trains operating at once and/or multiple operators, how much do you enjoy wiring, etc.? When I restarted in the hobby about 20 years ago, the first layout was DC, but after a move I switched to DCC and have not regretted it for a second. Much of that is probably because I regard wiring and electrical work as the least satisfying area of the hobby for me personally.

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I too was out of the hobby for almost 40 years. I went to DCC shortly after starting, put the old DC system under the table and never connected it to the track again. A lot of modelers resist switching to DCC because of the expense involved in converting a lot of legacy engines from DC to DCC. If you have 40 year old engines, they might not work well anyway.

Throw away all your old brass track and start fresh with new nickel-silver track.

And welcome back! [#welcome]

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Hi Guys, thanks for the replies. Dcc is the way to for me since I am starting over again. I wasn’t looking forward to all the wiring involved, and yes, I am done with the brass track way to maintenance. I am know seeing the results of long term storage on my engines and campell wood kits. I never thought how much time would pass before opening the boxes again. I have to see which is the best system to start with. Thanks again for the respones and I will be posting again after a little more reading up.

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[#welcome]

Lifelong DC user here…

I always tell people to ask themselves these three questions:

  1. Do I have a large collection of DC locomotives that would be difficult/expensive to convert to DCC?

  2. Do I have the depth of knowledge to build, maintain,and troubleshoot a DC control system by myself?

  3. Can I live without sound?

Unless you answer YES to all three questions… Go with DCC and do not look back.

-Kevin

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I have built and (thought) I enjoyed several DC layouts over the years. When I finally switched to DCC, I discovered what true enjoyment of a layout could be! Running the trains instead of the track is so much more fun and realistic. DCC offers far more bells and whistles, too.

As others have already stated, your 40 year old track is likely worthless and 40 year old locos may need a lot of help, too. Your rolling stock can be saved and upgraded to modern standards (Kadee couplers, NMRA weighting, metal wheels, etc.). However, I would set aside your old locos until you get your electrical skill back up to snuff (yes, they can be converted to DCC). Buy a couple of DCC (and sound?) equipped locos to get started and have fun! Visit a few layouts to get a feel for the different brand DCC systems. They are NOT all as good as their manufacturers claim. Try as many different brands of DCC systems as you can BEFORE purchasing one. Some systems work well out of the box but don’t offer as many features. Some offer many advanced features but have a reputation for nasty Gremlins. All systems have different throttles with varying degrees of ergonomic thought put into them. Ask how to set up a consist on each system. Setting up a consist on some systems is rediculously simple while doing so on other systems is rediculously difficult (in comparison). Many of us have upgraded from entry level systems so you might be able to pick up an entry level system on EBay cheap.

Keep in mind that DCC may sound more complicated than it is. Even DC has a learning curve for new modelers. As others have already stated, give DCC a shot and you’ll never go back to DC.

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I was confronted by the same dilemma some years back when I got back into the hobby. DCC was daunting at first, but I read up on it and really liked that the wiring was a bit easier and best of all, you could run multiple locomotives without regard to electrical control. That, coupled with quality sound really sold it for me.

One of the other biggies for me is that you can speed match locomotives and consist them together. In the DC days, that was a real problem unless you were running all the same brand.

My 2 cents…

Greg

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Hi tprail,

Lou, Beas, and Kevin’s summaries are solid. Here are a few detailed musings:

I also came back after 40+ years and had to make the same choice. I had a very few old DC engines that I love, and new DCC locos were mostly out of my budget, so designed and built a layout that I can run in either DCC or DC. The way I see it, DCC chiefly offers these benefits:

  • Sound
  • Brighter lights in locomotives
  • Running multiple trains on the same tracks at the same time, at different speeds, without isolated power blocks and the associated miles of wiring
  • Manufacturers are increasingly offering more DCC-equipped or DCC-ready (not the same thing) and fewer options in DC only.

Here are my thoughts on each of these benefits.

  1. Sound gets on my nerves after a while. I am happy to hear the actual, physical clickety clack, and everyone once in a while I go “whoo-woooooo!” at a crossing. Mostly its just me down in the garage anyway, and I have a vivid imagination. So DCC doesn’t score many points with me in this arena.

  2. I do love how newer locomotives always have bright headlights, but this is not really a function restricted to DCC. You can put new headlights in old locomotives.

  3. The really big advantage of DCC is that you don’t have to isolate locomotives electrically from one another on the track. You can run trains right behind each other without “opening and closing gates” all the time. This is attractive especially to people who don’t much enjoy the wiring aspect of the hobby, as mentioned above. I would pay more attention to this single facet of DCC than any other. For me, wiring scared the bejeepers out of me, but it was for that reason that I took on the project of wiring up a layout in the old power block method, and then adding electrical switches that enable me to turn the layout to DCC when I want, which is almost

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My 1st layout started DC and I switched to DCC. The 2nd (current) one is all DCC and very happy to have changed. While somewhat of a learning curve, I find it very engaging. It does require a bit of careful planning with wiring, but I knowit operates smoothly.

Welcome back!

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Hi Tprail,

Welcome to the forums and welcome back to the hobby!

I think that the DC vs DCC issue boils down to one question: Do you want to run your layout or do you want to run your trains? DCC allows you to focus on running trains. You don’t have to worry about switching track polarity and power districts (track polarity does still have to be switched in DCC in places like return loops, but there are devices that will do this for you automatically). All you do is run your trains and throw switches.

If you have some older locomotives, they may or may not be conducive to be converted to DCC. The fact is that DCC will not improve poor running qualities. The first thing to do is to give your locomotives a thorough tuning including cleaning all of the power contact points, cleaning out all the old grease, lubricating all the bearings and the gears, and cleaning the wheels. If they run smoothly then they likely can be converted to DCC.

If you have brass track it is strongly recommended that you don’t use it in your layout. It oxidizes very quickly and that will cause power pickup problems. You will be spending too much of your time keeping the track clean. However there is no reason why it can’t be used for a test track as long as you keep it clean.

I could go on forever regarding the benefits of DCC but I’ll shut up for now.

Cheers!!

Dave

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Hello All,

Tprail [#welcome] to the forums!

As a new member, your first few posts will be moderated so there will be a delay in seeing them.

To describe that track plan as “ambitious” is an understatement!

If you have that much space (10’x12’) I would begin with a simpler track plan with expansion possibilities.

A bit [#offtopic] from your query of the much debated Direct Current vs. Digital Command Control…

When returning to this great hobby in 2014, I began my track planning- -limited by “She Who Must Be Obeyed” to a 4’x8’ space- -on top of the bed in the spare bed/computer/soon-to-be railroad room.

John Allen, “The Wizzard Of Monterey” on planning:

"A model railroad should probably start with a concept.
Why?
Because much knowledge about railroading, experience in model railroading, and thought are required before a proper concept for a model railroad can be formed.
These requirements are seldom possible on a first pike. Mine was no exception." - -John Allen; Gorre & Daphetid Railroad.

With limited space, I knew my pike would be based on a single industry with both switching and “mainline” traffic.

The next question was, “What industry?”

After a road trip to the Western Slope of Colorado- -where I found an active rail-served coal mining operation- -I decided to base my track plan on this.

My next step was to decide what era.

Some modelers base their entire pike on a single moment in time while others just want to run trains regardless of the constraints of time.

I limited my choice to the diesel age.

The space constraints also guided me to

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Until recently my “N-scale” stuff had been packed away for over twenty years. My previous layout(s) was DC, all those in my operations group were DC except for one guy who went full on DCC, but like I said that was over twenty years ago.

I setup a small test track, a loop, some switches and sidings to test out my equipment. Most of the motive power, at least the Kato and Atlas are still good, the Rivarossi and Trix steamers, not so good. So I had the same question, stay DC or move to DCC. To get my answer I had to think about how I usually run my trains and what I now wanted. DCC would be great, the expense is not really an issue but I really like my older equipment and while some can easily be converted, I’m not yet ready to give up on the rest.

Since the new layout will incorporate some of the sections from my old layout with scratch built structures to fit specific locations I’ve narrowed my parameters to be mostly operations related. This works for me since I don’t expect any visitors and my space is a bit limited (compared to my old house). Still I did purchase a new switcher by BLI, it looked good and while it can run on DC only, it was a bit tricky. I eventully returned the unit not because of DC issues but the rather unreliable coupling/uncoupling I encountered and I didn’t want to convert it to Kadee couplers.

Most of the time I only run one train at a time (a local spotting cars) unless I run out a passenger train and just sit back and sip some whiskey while watching it go. So for now I intend to go ahead with DC only since it works for me. I don’t see any issue with converting to DCC if I decide it will help my lone operations. I guess the questions for you are do you intend to purchase much new equipment, are you a lone operator or plan to have group sessions (or family). Running multiple trains or switching oper

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Atlas puts out plans like that to sell more turnouts.

Welcome back, I was out for 20 years. I decided I liked sound (at a level much less than the factory setting) so I went with DCC. As a lone wolf operator, I could have gotten by with DC and blocks if I did not like sound.

If you are doing things that require coupling and uncoupling, plus throwing turnouts, how many trains can anyone run simultaneously?

If you go DCC, I suggest a starter book from Kalmbach as DCC is not intuitive. You do have to read the manual. There will be a diagram with 5 Boosters. Don’t be discouraged, you won’t need more than 1.

Detail has increased in HO and N scale. So has price. It is what it is. Kits and unfinished rolling stock are much less common.

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Is there a MR club or a hobby shop with a layout near your location? Maybe you can try DCC there and see if the switch is worth it. As mentioned by others, your old trains might not be worth saving.

Simon

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I’d be the last guy you’d want giving advice on DCC![(-D]

But I just wanted to say that the advice jjdamnit gave is worth very careful consideration to someone just starting out. Or over.

First, that Atlas layout plan looks more like a slotcar race set than say, an industrial switching layout. My cousin has one similar to it. He enjoys running short trains at high speeds through the labryn of tracks. He has no interest in building any industries or doing any switching. He doesn’t even claim to be a model builder. So with that particular approach, the track plan has it’s merits.

But if you do intend to add industries and spot cars them, it doesn’t offer much room to do so, or operate in a realistic approach of moving freight or passengers from one point to another.

There’s lots of other good advice in his reply and the rest of this thread to consider. I’ll only further add, I agree, toss the finicky-at-best brass track!

Dan

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I have a large basement sized layout and being a lone wolf operator, I can’t imagine using DC. For a smaller layout it seems more practical. I have had plans for almost 20 years to create a small (4X8) Christmas layout with winter scenery. One year I actually laid the track on a sheet of foam and built a few landforms with foam but that’s as far as I got. If I ever get around to completing it, it will be a DC layout using some old locos and rolling stock. Probably just a couple of locos.

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First thing is to find or make space, as much as possible/affordable. You will want some broad (36 inch) curves) if you want to run 80 foot passenger cars. That takes space. Assume you will stick with HO.

Get a copy of John Armstrong’s book Track Planning for Realistic Operation. It was invaluable to me. Decide between a table in the middle of the room layout and around the walls layouts. Subscribe to a model railroading magazine.

Decide upon which prototype road you want to model. It makes a difference when it come time to acquire colorful diesel locomotives. If you have a favorite locomotive, it is nice to model a prototype that owned your favorite. It helps to pick a road you are familiar with or close enough to go out rail fanning on it.

Go to some train shows. They always have a lot of vendors selling good looking used rolling stock for much less tha new list price.

DCC allows multiple operators independent control of their trains even while on the same track together. If you think of having friends over and running trains together DCC is great. If you will be the only operator, DC works just fine. DCC requires a $35 decoder installed in each locomotive, DCC controllers, and a DCC power pack.

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All excellent advice especially by jjdamnit.

Just to throw in my [2c]

I know Rule 1, but be wary of an impulse buy. Make sure what you have or purchase is what you want on the layout. Too many of us have purchased items we liked, then had to forward on to others (often at a considerable loss).

DC or DCC? I think you have already made your mind up, but think what you are to run. Are you having a number of locomotives around the layout ‘in operation’, or like me, one train at a time? Ask yourself 'Is DCC worth the outlay for the way you want to operate?

Whatever you choose, have a plan of what must be on the layout and not what you think you want. Plan what buildings must be on the layout. Keep the plan simple. Many a modeller has fallen by the wayside due to complicated ideas. Most important, enjoy the journey. Even in downtime (and there will be) Know you are on the right track.

Looking forward to see how you progress.

David

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The DC versus DCC is one of several important questions to decide. I agree with all the above comments, DCC is a great choice. But there are other important questions:

  1. Do you want to follow the train around the layout or have a control center? Walkaround control is marvelous for switching operations. Once you have it, you will never go back to a control center. DCC has options for radio walkaround control and wifi. Get the wifi version. Look for DCC systems that include wifi as part of the base package versus those with wifi as an add-on. You will pay more for systems where wifi is an addon.

  2. DCC throttles are a much-discussed topic with many having strong opinions. The best wifi throttles are expensive but very cool! This is an area where it is best to get a “hand-on” experience. What feels good in your hand? Does the throttle make sense to you? Does it fit in your budget?

  3. Turnout control, it is best to decide and implement when constructing the layout. One can change later but it is not as convenient… There are options for manual control and electronic control of turnouts. The easiest manual control can be found on Peco turnouts. They come with a simple built-in manual control. I wish had purchased Peco turnouts and flex track but too expensive to switch now. Caboose hobby ground throws are a commonly used inexpensive option. Over-center springs are a cheap homemade option. There a numerous manual controls where the user installs linkages under the layout (commercial and homemade).

Many electronic control options are available. Some examples. The Circuitron Tortoise is very popular and one can find significant support from satisfied users on

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I know several friends that use DCC, but it offers nothing for me. I’m generally the sole operator of my layout, and am not at all interested in running multiple trains, sound effects, nor lights on locos or in structures.
I can run multiple trains in-sequence, though, as most of the towns on my layout have double track, which allows other trains to over-take and/or pass parked trains.
Most of my layout has track that’s easy to reach, so uncoupling can be done either manually or with in-track magnets.
My PWM controller allows me to follow a train anywhere on the layout, while some turnouts are powered, and others are easily operated manually.
I have, on occasion, operated more than a dozen locos at the same time, usually in an effort to amuse my grandkids.

These two wires…

…power all of the track on my layout, but there are on/off controls in each town and on all of the staging tracks and industrial sidings, too…all just basic stuff that I learned in the '50s.

Wayne