Hey guys, I just joined. Pleasure to meet you all.
So I have loved trains since I was…born, pretty much. Naturally, getting into the hobby was a given, and my dad and I started going to train shows and picking things up when I was about 4. My dad didn’t want to invest too heavily in top of the line things, since for a kid of that age, what difference did it make? As long as they ran, that was what was important.
Unfortunately, our basement had to be renovated many years back, so our layout had to come down, and at about age 12, I sort of fell out of things.
Well recently I’ve become interested in picking things up again, now that I’m in my late 20s. However, I’ve run into a few problems. First and foremost, what worked when I was 4 doesn’t work anymore. Its not even that what I have is out of date, but most of it flat out doesn’t work (at least, the engines). They also have the older style of couplings (I’d provide a picture, but I haven’t the faintest idea what they’re called). Everything else uses newer knuckle couplings, which one thing I own has. All my track is brass, and needs a good cleaning. As I already said, 90% of the engines just don’t run. Their motors are just shot (probably because my dad bought everything preowned and its ancient, now).
Now, I’ve been doing research before I buy anything and wanted some help or opinions. I feel quite overwhelmed and don’t even know where to start. A lot of the videos and articles I’ve watched tend to speak to you where they expect you have a degree of knowledge of certain terms and within 2 minutes I’m confused about things. So if anyone posting can give me some tips or advice, please feel free to lay things out as basically as possible.
not sure how big you want to get into the hobby. for some, they ultimately choose a specific prototype and want equipment specific to that railroad rather than a random collection of stuff. So unless you have a strong preference for changing gauge (N, HO, O, …) I suggest you stick with what you got and use it. You may need a new engine, but you can use the rolling stock.
Before buying anything, unless you want to build something temporary to get some experiences, you need figure out how much space you can use for a layout and develop a track plan. This can take a while. I suggest you read some of the may threads under the Layout and layout building forum to see what others have suggested and the comments made. Those thread will also mention various books. Track Planning for Realistic Operation is one. I suggest reading The Art of Model Railroading.
In the mean time, you can read up, including these forums, on other aspects, such as benchwork, track, throttles, locomotives and rolling stock.
Presumably you know the DC controls locomotives using a throttle that supplies power to the rails to control any and all locomotives on those rails. Various wiring and switches are used to control isolated “blocks” of track allowing different locomotives to be controlled by separate throttles.
The old toy trains had horn hook couplers. We don’t need a picture. They can be replaced with Kadee couplers. Model trains suffer from youthful hands and they didn’t have all the much detail years ago. What you have may not be worth refurbishing.
Rail joiners come separately and are a few bucks for 50. I like flex track it gives more options. I don’t think track with roadbed attached looks right, but if everyone agreed with me, Kato and Bachmann wouldn’t sell any of it.
I’ve got no pearls about HO vs N. When you get my age, bigger stuff is easier to see and work on. That said, Sir Maddog is my age and is starting a Z scale layout.
You are not my age so this will not be your last layout and you will likely be moving a couple times. Building benchwork that is not movable means you have to start over.
Speaking of age, you do not remember when rail cars had no graffiti. You need to decide on era and a pace or theme, otherwise you end up with a hodge podge of steam and new diesel and a variety of road names.
Get a couple beginner books on DCC. It has 50% of the market. Stay away from the proprietary control systems like DCS.
Is there a club near you where you can get some ideas?
Welcome. I won’t attempt to address everything you’ve surfaced but will offer some initial reactions:
You sort of suggest that budget will be a practical concern, as it is for most. Along those lines I’d suggest to get familiar with some of the key cost components i.e., DC vs DCC systems, typical DC vs DCC locos, track components, freight and passenger cars. Just enough to get a feel before making major decisions. Peruse (don’t try to memorize) the Walthers catalog or a website like modeltrainstuff.com
Consider your time budget as well. How much time would you guess you would spend on hobbying? Will that likely change considerably in 5-10 years due to interest or other factors?
Consider what scale you prefer (e.g., some of us older guys claim we would not relish tinkering with N scale, others (old or younger) are fine with it.
Given the above, how do you plan to handle a layout? Are there space concerns? Do you have expectations on how fast you want to complete most trackwork and have the basic layout operating? Size will affect progress to an extent (depending on complexity). Will you adopt an existing track plan, design a variation on your own, design one from scratch? Will you be more focused on building and running trains around (like me, very building (freight cars, structures, scenery) oriented re: my interests, plus simple running for the grandkids) or will you prefer a more sophisticated layout where more realistic “operations” (switching, etc) will be needed to not eventually be bored?
I second the suggestion to get ahold of some books on key subjects, many goods ones in the Kalmbach store here, on subjects such as track planning, effective trackwork installation, basic wiring, DCC (if interested), benchwork, then additional things like scenery. I like to study ahea
Thanks so much for everything everyone has posted so far. I think at this point what I really need to do is mostly find out where I need to get started. I’ve gotta do some reading, first and foremost. I’ve gotta find a layout that I really like (by design, or a pre-fabricated one) and tweak it to fit into a 4x6. Then I have to worry about buying things to get at least something set up, slowly but surely. Over time, I can add onto it, start making things more permanent and whatnot. But Rome wasn’t built in a day. I think I was feeling overwhelmed because when I had a question, I’d try to find the answer and end up for 5 more questions. I’m still learning a lot of this and need to remember it takes time and patience. I’ll get there, but as someone said, its a journey. I have to start somewhere, and my path will eventually get me there. Someday I may even be able to add onto this layout, who knows?
Welcome back to the hobby, and welcome to the forums!! [#welcome]
You have asked a lot of questions which is a good thing.
Let’s start with your old locomotives. The most likely reason for your old stuff not working is dried grease. You need to figure out how to get them apart so you can clean all the old lubricant out and replace it. If you can let us know which locomotives you have, we can tell you how to get them apart. Posting pictures of them would be very helpful. Instructions for posting pictures are in the first thread on the General Discussion page.
Some inexpensive so called “toy train” locomotives might not be worth the effort because they can never be made to run reliably especially at slow speeds. Also, their motors may draw too much power for the DCC decoders to handle.
The old couplers can easily be replaced. Kadee is the go to brand but there are other good ones too. Stay away from plastic couplers.
Brass track has fallen badly out of favour. It can be used but you will need to clean it constantly to keep things running. Having your engines stall all the time is the quickest way out of the hobby. Nickel/silver is what is used now. Stay away from straight steel track. It has the same oxidization problems as brass. Considering the size of your layout the cost for new nickel/silver track won’t be that huge. New turnouts will be a bit of an investment but you can find them used on eBay.
Flex track gives you more freedom of design. Just don’t get too carried away with how tight you can bend the curves. 18" radii is about as small as you want to go unless you are modelling a trolly system (which, by the way, could be very interesting in a 4’ x 6’ space). Best to do some research on what minimum radius a locomotive (or car) will safely operate on before buying them.
I’m quite biased towards HO, mainly because I like
Toy train locomotives would include brands like Tyco, AHM, some Bachmann and a few others. The big problem for someone starting out in DCC with old locomotives, would be installing decoders. Locos from 30 years ago would not be DCC ready, i.e. not ready to just plug a decoder in and have them run. They would have to be hard wired with soldered connections. Even one that is “DCC ready” (not DCC, but with a socket to plug in a decoder) may be a bit of a challenge for someone just starting out.
It probably would be best to buy a new locomotive with a factory installed decoder just to get started. Let us know the manufacturer of your existing loco, and we probably can advise if it is worth saving for a future decoder install.
I’m in a modular club, therefoe I do not have a layout.
As for my HO Collection, I have 2 Steam Excursion Trains, 1 Streamlined Passenger Train, and 2 sets of ATHG F3 A-B-A Sets (ATSF and MKT) to pull my transition era freight train, I also have a metrolink commuter train.
A module may be a better idea than a layout, especially if it’s a small one, like 2-4 feet, you can easily box it up when you are done.
[#welcome]to the forum.
I’d suggest seeing if you have a local club, modular or permanent. I learn better by seeing than reading.
Cheers, the Bear.[:)]
As my name was mentioned in one of the answers to the OP´s question, I feel kind of obliged to join in as well.
Things have changed a lot since your childhood days. A lot more stuff is now available in kits or RTR than ever before. Quality also has improved, although you can run into issues with any brand. N scales has matured and is certainly now equal to HO scale, not in terms of detail, but quality and performance. Additionally, Blackstone has joined the ranks of suppliers with a lot of nice HOn3 narrow gauge locos and cars. Even Z scale, though still somewhat of a stepchild, is catching on.
You state to have room for a 4 by 6 ft. layout, which is not a lot, but still a feasible size for a layout in either of the scales mentioned above. MR´s project layout of this year shows you, what can be done in HO scale. Of course, You can put a lot more “trains” onto this real estate in N scale and even more in Z scale. Or you could use the “gain” in space to build a more generous looking layout with broader curves and more room for scenery - IMHO the better choice.
I´d like to offer a simple answer to your DC/DCC question. With DC, you control the power on the track, requiring an extra control of the routing of the power if you want to operate more than one loco on your layout. DCC controls each loco and lets you run a number of locos on the same track, without the need for a separate routing of the power. DCC puts you into the driver´s seat, while DC turns you into a dispatcher, routing the power.
Track - the choice of track finally depends on your choice of scale . Using flex track requires some experience and skills, putting together sectional track is much easier and quicker. A good brand for sectional track with a fairly large selection of different radii and switches is Kato´s Unitrack, available both in HO scale and N scale. It has a molded on roadbed, which looks a little artificial, but can be vastly improved with just a
Well first welcome, I am getting back into it also, but I have been keeping up while moving around and such. KATO, some Bachman and several other comapnies are great.
Track on your first track you might want to use sectional but I would use Nickel Silver Flex Track on cork or similar road bed and don’t ballast you turnout, just run ballast on the outside except near the throw bars.
DC versus DCC except for reversing sections you don’t have to do as much wiring and you can find a nice transitor throttle with momentum and braking in DC on Ebay for a lot less than a DCC system, but the DCC will have sound in N or H0.
Scale I am building and old time layout in the den in H0 with solder in boards sound in the tenders in 3X15 feet in a dog bone loop and several industries and passenger stops. In N in the master bedroom a
Well I went to my local hobby shop today (George’s Trains, one of the best model train stores in Canada). I talked extensively with one of the owners and he gave me some good tips. I think I’m going to stick with HO. I can convert my rolling stock to knuckle couplers fairly easily, it seems. And I can add in metallic wheels if I so desire, which I may very well.
Right now, its down to 3 things-which engine I want (I’ll be getting one with DCC/Sound, but style and color scheme are things I have to decide on), and perhaps more importantly, a DCC system and track. Now, the guy at the shop recommended Kato Unitrack. It seems pretty good-plugs into each piece pretty easily, I like that it has realistic roadbed already attached and raising the track up. At the same time, Atlas track is cheaper, I can put on a roadbed that I choose, ballast it all to look a bit more realistic and it connects to other track, like Flex Track. Now, for the time being, I don’t see much need for Flex Track. Its great if you want irregular curves or to mold things to fit a certain shape that regular track won’t permit, but right now, I’m just looking to get something set up and won’t be attempting anything out of the ordinary. So Unitrack or Atlas with cork roadbed underneath…dunno which to go with. Thoughts?
Also, I’m hoping for my first goal to be able to run 2-3 trains at a time on my layout. I don’t necessarily need any crazy, top of the line DCC system that can run 30 trains simultaneously. Are there any out there people can suggest, to meet my requirements?
Was it me, I’d do some planning of my layout. You mentioned 4 by 6, which is pretty small. Usually the small layout is 4 by 8, 'cause plywood comes in 4 by 8 sheets. Any chance of future expansion somewhere? The garage, a back porch, the basement, the attic, anywhere. Or moving? Any chance of doing an around the walls layout? They don’t have to be very deep to be interesting and you can get a lot more layout into the same room.
Do you have a favorite prototype road, Canadian Pacific or Canadian National, Ontario Northern, or some other? Anything running near where you live that you can go and railfan?
With your space limitations, I’d go for 18 inch curves in HO. Most commercial models will handle 18 inch curves. Few will stay on the track if the curves get any tighter. Big steam and 6 axle diesels may (will) have trouble with curves that sharp. You will be limited to 4-6-2 and 2-8-2 steamers and four axles diesels.
You mentioned running 2-3 trains at a time. That’s hard to do on a 4 by 6, there just isn’t enough room for enough track to hold that many trains. How many operators do you see running the trains? 4 by 6 is pretty small to allow 2 or 3 operators running 2 or 3 trains. If you see lots of operators, running trains at the same time, then DCC is the way to go. Each DCC locomotive responds only to signals in the track addressed to it and it ignores commands addressed to other locomotives. So three operators can have independent control of three locomotives all on the same run of track. This flexiblity comes with costs. You have to buy and install a $30 (or more) DCC decoder module inside each locomotive. PLus buy the DCC “base station” that generates the DCC signal going into the track.
If you are thinking about just a single operator, yourself, which is reasonable
Welcome back to the hobby! Lots of changes in the last few years to absorb. I have been to George’s trains a few times. My wife and I use to take weekend vacations up into Canada before one needed a passport from the USA. We lived in Erie, PA, just a hop, skip and a jump from Niagra Falls. Mike
Welcome back to the hobby. I think most of your questions have been answered. I would like to offer a few bits of info I think will assist you.
Join the NMRA - National Model Railroad Association.
Most divisions have a meeting every three months and there you will many great expierenced modelers. You will also get to see many RR as they have tours almost on every occasion and you can discover more about your likes and dislikes
Try to narrow your focus. Ask your self do you want to Model a specific time or free lance ?
Do you want to create your own RR or model after a certain actual real life RR
Plan and research before buying. It will save money and lead to more enjoyment
Research some more and then plan
Ask others to look at your design and get some feed back. A new pair of eyes will see things you didnt consider and help improve over all design.
Did I say research and design ? Very important
Dont be afraid to fail. If it doesnt work just start over
Make it fun !
Lastly I would liek to invite you to Jeffries Trackside Diner. We talk on and off subject and all are invited
I prefer adding my own road bed and ballast, it isn’t that hard and it looks better, if you do use Kato track use a light wash of ink or arcylic paint to add shaddow detail and to kill the shine, with a spray of Dullcote and paint the inside of all but the switches. Flex with allow and smoother transition to the curve and you can solder the connections and lay the track by carefully bending it from the middle to the end and then cut the rails to match. It is just a little harder than snap track and looks 100Xs better.
DCC decide how many engines you will want to run at once and then double it most of the smaller systems allow for expansion. Doing what I suggested will allow you to run some auto features and add engines. With mine I am going to triple the engines as I will be double heading some and adding more stratchbuilt and kitbashed engines as time allows
DC is fine but the wiring is more complicated and this can be a turn off for many hobbist from building a
My sugestion for a dcc system would be as an earlier member said is the NCE Power Cab. This is plenty for what you are talking about running for now and can be expanded if needed. The company supports there product so if you need help they are great. The best advice as has also been mentioned read up on wiring, track layout, and other subjects be it online or hard copy. Good luck and dont be discouraged it will all fall into place.
Thanks for your input. Question-does the NCE Power Cab still allow me to use sound on my locomotives? I just want to make sure, this may be the one I go with. I hear good things in reviews, but want extra opinions.
conventional sound is a feature of the decoders and independent of the control system (e.g. NCE, Digitrax, …)
I recommend the PowerCab. It is both a command station providing power to the track and a controller. It can also be used as a controller on a higher power system with a separate command station.
I guess I phrased that poorly. While the decoders are what enables locomotives to make sounds, can I use the PowerCab to control those sounds? Like can I enter a code on the controller and the locomotive’s horn will blow? I just want to ensure that this system is sound friendly, as opposed to a DC system where you turn it on and can control speed and direction, and that’s it (no sounds or anything).
In other words, if I buy a locomotive with decoders installed already, can I make it make sounds by using the PowerCab controller?
