Although a dyed in the wool S fanatic, one can learn a lot from exploring other scales. Case in point, I purchased a MDC 2-8-0 Harriman kit for the sole purpose of extracting the cab demensions and Vanderbuilt tender details to replicate in my scale, one look at it reminds me of my first MDC steam kit and the efforts that were necessary to assemble and detail properly. Makes one appreciate the high quality, prototype specific , DCC sound equipped ready to run we take for granted today, even in the minority scales.
You are right, Dave. However, there have been seemingly endless numbers of threads over the months initiated by people who think that all of this neat new RTR stuff should be had for a few dollars, like ‘in the good old days’, whereas others question why anyone would want to buy it at all!
I happen to apppreciate the fact that several companies market RTR stuff with sound, even if it costs $300 per unit. I might be different from those who buy 10 engines a year, whether cheaply on e-bay or not. I want to have four or five good engines, only, and to enjoy them until I have to replace them due to their age and condition.
My needs break down like this: Bachman’s excellent On30 2-6-0 can be purchased in the $100.00-$140.00 range, sometimes cheaper, widening the guage set me back $57.00 and a months wait. Detail parts, new tender and pilot trucks another $100.00 or so, quite a bit of detail is fashioned from scratch. So for apx. $300 and change I have the ingredients for five quality engines that the S market cannot duplicate for less the $700.00 per model in the case of a quailty brass kit, that may or may not be available when you need it. Adding DCC and sound still puts me out on top.
Like you, I require a small roster, perhaps 5-6 engines , keeping my goals within reach is a godsend for me, S motive power, particulary steam is hard to obtain and requires one to think outside the box.
The debate over cost vrs.value in this hobby goes back to the days of tin can locomotives and cardboard sided cars. My opinion is pay for quality, you will end up throwing good money after bad if you choose to do otherwise.
Selector, you beat me to it. I’ve said in other threads that if there was a market for the crappy old cheap stuff, manufacturers would be chasing that market. In general they are not (someone launched a cheapie RTR line recently). Look at the new brands like Proto2000 and Spectrum where cheapie manufacturers are moving up market.
RTR is here to stay. I admit that I was not to crazy about it before, but looking at my busy schedule I appreciate the option that RTR offers.
How I took my youth for granted when I spent hours in my bedroom for hours on end, enjoying decaling, painting, detailing in my parents house. I didn’t realize that I “had it made!” (Young modelers: Are you reading?)
Now that I’m in my 40s, those days for me are long past. With family responsibilities, work, house maintenance, bills to pay, training classes to attend, etc., RTR models offer a very good option. This is why I went “Ga-Ga” some years back when P2K models were introduced. Hoses, windshield wipers, crew, drop steps, lift rings and roof detailing already on the model. That give me more time to concentrate on layout planning, building, and painting other models in the road names I want.
Walthers: Thanks for the HO Budd Cars!
Life Like: Thanks for those beautiful HO E-units!
I personally prefer steam locomotive kits in HO and HOn3. In my lazy case, having an RTR model that has to be taken apart to be made into what I want it to be just presents another psychlogical barrier to getting started. Most of all, I would really like a very reliable and slow-running quiet mechanism (kit or RTR) to form the basis for my model. For me, the simpler designs - 4-4-0, 4-6-0, 2-6-0, 2-8-0, Shay, and Climax are ideal. Less than $200 for the mechanism and a throw-in plastic boiler and tender would be great, but I could accept $300 for a quiet, slow and smooth running, DCC ready, sound-ready, but simplified detail. I’m sure third-party folks would fill in with a suitable range of boilers, tenders, cabs, and other details similar to what was/is done for the Roundhouse Shays.
Like others, I only want about 3-5 locomotives for each (narrow and standard guage), and I’m willing to take the time to make each an excellent model.
That said, I always keep 1 RTR in each scale so I can just run some trains or test my new track or wiring, whether or not I’ve finished (or even started) my “real” efforts.
Let’s put price in perspective. When I first started in the hobby (about 1947) the “standard” engines were a Varney B&O Dockside 0-4-0 saddle tank switcher (of which the B&O had TWO) and the Roundhouse SP 0-6-0 for $15 and $30 respectively. Gas was less than 30 cents a gallon and the minimum wage was 75 cents an hour! Do the math and look at what we now get in inflation adjusted dollars. THESE are the good old days!
I remember buying brass diesels from Tenshodo,Alco Models,Hallmark and Trains Inc for $24.00-34.00…Brass steamers such as a UP 0-6-0 from United was a mere $38.00 as was a Santa FE 2-8-0…
Remember folks minimum wage may have been 1.25 a hour but,there was lots of UNION industrial jobs that $3.25-4.00 dollars a hour…That may not sound like a lot but,it was a very good wage at that time.Plus you still had white collar jobs that paid a whooping $250-300.00 a week!
Now you see like today there was high paying jobs and everybody wasn’t working for $1.25 a hour.So if we are going to talk about money back then we better throw in the high paying jobs we had in those days as well.
BTW Back then there was tons of high paying jobs to be had! [:D]
In fairness to MDC can it at least be pointed out that thousands of their engines soldier on, year after year, sure, grinding noisily away, drive wheels laughably wide (designed to earlier NMRA standards) and looking way too brassy BUT still giving fair value for the money paid. We know that with proper care old MDC and Bowser and Mantua steam locomotives can still run after 20, 30, 40, even 50 years of service. Ditto for some Athearn GPs and SWs and Fs that date back to the 1960s.
Meanwhile now and then I read in this forum that some guys have problems with P2K and Bachmann and Broadway Limited engines that are almost brand new, and a good friend with DCC has gone through an astounding number of Kato and Atlas engines.
I have no argument about issues of scale fidelity, cleverness of design etc etc. In most respects these are the good old days right now. But sturdiness is a virtue too and the jury is still out on most of today’s products in that regard.
Dave (not feeling so sturdy myself anymore) Nelson