Hi,
Before i left the hobby 20 years ago i would use Isopropyl alcohol to wet the area down to help with the glue. But watching videos on the infamous YouTube i see alot of people are putting few drops of dish soap in there glue mixture and not using Isopropyl alcohol. Or i am missing them using it. Which way is best?
Thanks
Rick
Anything that reduces surface tension will help thinned glue mixtures ‘wet’ the ballast, and wick in relatively quickly without beading on the surface. Dish ‘soap’ is a surfactant that does this in relatively small concentration.
Isopropyl alcohol soaks in a bit better than plain water, and then water-containing glue mixture preferentially mixes with the alcohol. I do not know if some glues don’t behave well if thinned with alcohol solution. I’d suspect the dish-soap method is long-term a bit cheaper, and doesn’t have the hazards of atomized alcohol spray. Keep in mind you could pre-spray with the dilute dish soap and then apply the actual thinned glue in a separate step, so you get good ‘wetting’ of the whole area with no dry spots, but you control the glue to go only where you want it.
There is no best way. Gluing down ballast and scenery has been the topic of discussion on model railroad forums for years.
What I have found over 21+ years in the hobby is that applying 70% isopropyl alcohol first on the area to be treated prepares that area quite nicely for the application of the glue mix to follow. A 4:1 ratio of water to glue, with a few drops of liquid detergent mixed in, works very well to secure the ballast.
Most modelers use white glue. I do too for the scenery, but for ballast I use matte medium. Why? Because when I first started into the hobby, the guys at my LHS told me to do so. Matte medium is way more expensive than white glue, but I like it for ballast because, if necessary, the ballast can be removed by another application of 70% isopropyl alcohol as opposed to flooding the ballast with water to remove it.
Hope this helps.
Rich
The best way is what works best for you. I did the dish soap approach for years (started doing it 30+ years ago), but seeking a better way, I tried the isopropyl alcohol approach when I heard about it. Specifically, I was looking for a better process for ballast, but no matter how much I tweaked it, I just didn’t get as good of results using alcohol as I did with dish soap. Same experience with general scenery as well.
I see as I was typing this, Rich commented that in his experience alcohol worked better. See what I mean? Try both and do what works for you!
Thanks for the input
Thanks for the information
I’ve used both methods, and both work. I use Isopropyl alcohol only because that’s what I have on my shelf in my workshop…
Simon
I read and also found myself that matte medium yields a lower transmission of sound with ballast over roadbed. This probably only matters if you use 2" pink foam under roadbed.
If anything, I’d guess using a few drops of dish soap is the older method, nothing new! I remember doing it in the 70s-80s. Both do the job, but soap can cause bubbles.
I agree with Charlie H about matte medium being good. White glue tends to dry kind of brittle; matte medium (like Modge Podge) stays more…well, ‘rubbery’ I guess. Gloss medium is good for water effects, as it dries clear like matte medium, but is glossy/shiny.
Charlie, you read correctly. Matte medium has the same effect on 1/2" plywood that it has on 2" pink foam. It definitely tends to mute the sound of a train running on ballasted track.
Back in 2018, when I was laying track on my current layout, I experimented with 6’ lengths of track, laying it (1) directly on the plywood surface, (2) on cork glued onto the plywood surface, (3) on unglued ballasted track on cork roadbed, (4) on white glued track on cork roadbed and (5) on matte medium glued track on cork roadbed. Matte medium glued track on cork roadbed on 1/2" plywood subroadbed proved to be the quietest of the five tests.
Rich
Thanks everyone so far for all your input and suggestions.
Rick
I have mentioned on previous threads that I do things a little differently.
I pin the track down then ballast. No glue or whatever.
Scenery likewise is not glued down.
Simple and quick. New scenery is also done as before. Old scenery can be used again.
Unorthodox I know, but it works for me.
Yeah. that works, but you gotta be willing to constantly groom loose ballast due to any number of causes.
Rich
Not this side of the pond my friend. Once down it stays down - until I move it.
In that case , you must be just staring at your layout.
Rich
Hardly. David posts pictures of his grandkids playing with the trains regularly. I can see where that could work. I’ve never tried it with regular scenery, but I’ve spread ballast and not gotten around to gluing it for a few weeks. Didn’t have an issue.
LOL
I was speaking totally in jest.
Seriously, I have often thought about a ballasted track plan without gluing down the ballast. I tried it once on a segment oh my layout, but it met with only limited success. It is pretty tough to maintain an active layout without having to groom the unglued ballast from time to time. That’s why the vast majority of modelers glue down the ballast.
Rich
Try it again.
My layout is thirteen years old. Never wanted to glue anything down. Just the buildings. Altered things and replaced, yes. Simple like I say.
My grandchildren run trains (their way) with success.
The way I do ballast is this: I spread the ballast like usual. Dose the ballast with 70% isopropyl alcohol. Then glue it down with a 50:50 mix white glue & water with a couple drops of the alcohol. I use a couple of tie-dye bottles I got cheaply many years ago. Should I need to replace track, I still can remove the ballast with the alcohol.
I do my turnouts a bit differently however. I put gray Duck tape on the bottom making sure that the points still move. (My ballast is gray.) It allows for ballast but the turnout can be removed easily if it get damaged. (I mostly use sectional track and use the tape idea for sectional joints as well.)
Sorry Rich, I totally missed that.
I did think of one occassion where not gluing ballast, at least right away, came back to bite me. In college we rented a house that apparently had it’s share of mice living there. I had ballasted my entire yard and decided to wait until the next day to glue it down. The next morning there were little mouse footprints all through the freshly laid ballast. Felt like it took almost as long to fix that as it did to lay it all in the first place.